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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:30:37 +0000
To: midnight.voices<email address>
From: Stephen Payne <email address>
Subject: MV605
Road of Silk:
I don't have any thoughts about the age or the occupation of the man. But
surely he's on his death bed, or at least contemplating his death? Why else
would he be losing what he hardly knew was there? Why else would his
fondest memories be fading?
Chords:
Wonderful: more songs, more fun. But, can someone tell me how to finger
Em9 (no7), and C(6)?! I know C6, but why is that 6 in parentheses?
S
==============================================================================
From: IChippett <email address>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 04:29:27 EST
To: midnight.voices<email address>
Subject: MV606: Road of Silk and Db7ths
I have always thought that the above song was about a sleeping child as seen
by his parents and was more than surprised when Gerry S started talking about
dying G.I.s. Now Steve says he thinks it's about someone dying too! Would you
like to explain?
While I was thinking about this, it reminded me of the day I did my mock 'A'
level Eng.Lit exam. We had, I think, 2 hours to write a criticism of a poem. I
was (I thought then) good at this and finished in half an hour. The poem was
by Cecil Day-Lewis and I started : "This work deals with the birth of the
poet's child...." When I had finished my critique I looked over the shoulders
of my classmates and saw that each of them had been writing about the death of
a child! On re-reading more carefully I found they were right. So, and this
says something about the effectiveness of English teaching methods, I simply
crossed out the word "birth" each time I had used it and replaced it by
"death". I swear that's all I did and I got the top mark!
I heartily agree with Ian Sorenson about Db7 and E. When I do transcriptions
(he writes with bitter irony) Pete bluepencils my D7s and replaces them with
D(C bass) and suchlike. Now he airily says Db7 or E like some experimental
composer! Who does he think he is, Pierre Boulez?! 8-)) It's as if Clive
had written "The Road of Silk (or Milk)".
Not much chance of me making it to Monyash from Paris, I'm afraid. I'll have
to make do with the C.D. when I get it. Have you received my order, Steve? It
should arrive via my mum.
I.C. (the Joker)
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:15:50 +0000
To: midnight.voices<email address>
From: Gerald Smith <email address>
Subject: MV607: Road of Silk, Radio Interview, Chords
Hello All
I must admit, the more I study the lyric to TROS, the more inclined I am
to think I was wrong about the dying GI in Vietnam theory. Better, a
traumatised GI back home, maybe sedated, staring into space, and behind his
shell-shocked eyes those memories of childhood still remaining. Either
way, the subject is definitely suffering in some way. The song is full of
images of childhood, the passage of time and transience. I link the song
with Vietnam partly because of when it was written, partly because Clive
has written about it before and perhaps most directly, the line "The Road
of Silk Rolls backward from Cathay". Was the Silk Road not a Far Eastern
trading route? Also, "the lead dragoons pack up and quit the tray". How
different those games of tin soldiers and the reality of Vietnam. A victim
of trauma would surely need to be treated very gently, hence "Easy, let him
sleep now".
Dunno.
Steve - if you (or any other voices) way a copy of the Steve Wright
interview, Telex Monitors (0171 490 8018) can provide one. I thought the
charge was a bit steep when I asked (£143 for 15 minutes). Alternatively,
you could try Media Link (01902 493388).
Stephen Payne - an Em9 (no 7) is easy. Just play a standard Em chord (stop
D & A strings on second fret), with the addition of a stopped top E, also
on second fret. Re C(6), the parentheses indicate that the 6th is optional,
but will probably sound better.
Gerry Smith
==============================================================================
From: B & J Cotterill <email address>
To: <email address>
Subject: MV608 (renumbered from MV605) re:MV590,585 and 601
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:10:50 -0000
Hi All
Road of Silk - no, I can't get the Vietnam GI connection, but I do agree on
the childhood memories, or dreams of childhood as a happier time. And the
>lipstick on a glass> image conjures up a feeling of lost love. I somehow
don't feel it's an old man, rather one aged about 20/30. Mel, where's your
thesis on this one?
September 20th is marked on the wall chart!
Other gigs: I have mentioned before about the Riverhouse Barn at Walton on
Thames. Oct/Nov would be a good time, there are free dates at the moment,
and there's a mailing list which includes many people of the folk persuasion.
Steve, if you're passing such info on to Pete, the phone no for the Barn is
01932 253354, or contact could be made via me.
And thanks to Gerry Smith and David Jones particularly for the explanations
re tritones.
regards
Jenny
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:54:27 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV609: Re MV605; MV605; MV606; MV607
Re MV605 and MV605:
Oops, we seem to have two MV605s! I do hate it when that happens. Before
numbering this one (probably MV609 if nothing comes through first) I'll
reserve MV608 for the first 605 (from Jenny Cotterill) and resend it under
that number, then sort out in the digests -- sorry. And I'll make sure Jenny
that Pete knows about the Riverside Barn.
Re MV606: Road of Silk and Db7ths:
Hello Ian. I'm not too strong tonight on justifying my intuition about Road
of Silk, but I agree with Stephen's (MV605) comment. See also response to
Gerry's message (next). I'll ask Pete to comment on the chords. Yes, your
mum's cheque arrived Friday and the package went out Saturday, so you
should have it any day now. Now, now, don't let's perpetuate that 'too far
away' excuse -- I think the Canadians (well, some of them) are coming again
this year. How far is it from Paris to Manchester, or East Midlands anyway?
Just over an hour, twice a day? You'd almost be here before Pete arrives
from Bristol. And well inside £100, if I recall :-) But no doubt in reality
you've got other obstacles to coming, not least the beginning of term.
Pity, we'd like to have seen you!
Re MV607: Road of Silk, Radio Interview, Chords:
In response Gerry to your e-mail of 17th, no, we've had no contact (yet)
from a Peter Driver. Thanks for the info on the sound radio archives. Yes, the
price is a little high for amateur use, isn't it. I think we might let that
one go. Trauma victim fits -- 'let him sleep now' could cover any condition
of being cared for. 'Backward from Cathay' seems inverted: while a road
generally works both ways, the silk route feels to have run from east to
west, so a dissolving, a rolling-up process (in the memory) away from
Cathay wouldn't imply reversal, even from an Australian (i.e. before the
route) viewpoint. Rather back as in towards Europe, the forward direction.
I'm just trying to be too geographically literal I think, when what's
intended is an image of evanescence. The 'lead dragoons' though would
hardly be the style of a plaything from the period of a young man's
childhood -- not exactly G.I. Joe.
-- Steve
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:10:01 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: Hamilton Pruim <email address>
Subject: MV610 Re: MV607: Road of Silk, Radio Interview, Chords
Well, here's my ha'porth.
I can't see GI's, death, birth or much of that. For me, it's all about
images of what might have been.
There is an astonishingly powerful phrase which, for me, overshadows the
whole. "In time the swelling bark takes in the nails (etc)". The image of a
crucifixtion lost to history because the victim is still around to talk
(only sleeping, not aware as at one time) speaks loudly of opportunities
lost, turned down, simply passed by.
The Road of Silk is that path to exotica and adventure that might have been
possible - the opposite feel to that in The Road Not Taken. (Robert Frost,
for anyone that doesn't recognise it).
Maybe that's just too obvious? It's fine for me.
Hamilton
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:43:30 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: Hamilton Pruim <email address>
Subject: MV611 Re: MV610; MV607: Road of Silk, Radio Interview, Chords
I got interested in "The Road of Silk", so I sent out my trusty ferret
(I've started using WebFerret Pro, and I like it,
http://www.ferretsoft.com) and here are some results:
http://www.mfa.gov.tr/GRUPE/silkroad.htm
http://www.balaams-ass.com/journal/prophecy/silkroad.htm
http://www.dfat.gov.au/bookshelf/html/silk_road/new_silk.html
http://www.silk-road.com/sogdian.shtml
http://www.globalearn.org/expedition/investigate/history/ihi970217-erzurum-crossroads.html
More than you ever wanted to know....
Hamilton
Hamilton Pruim
Effective Software Ltd
<phone number>
<fax number>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:48:03 -0500
From: Chris Harris <email address>
Subject: MV612: tapes/Gigs
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
STEVE,
>>. (But Chris, if the tape speed/running time issue meant you bought E180s
first please let me know --
>>we need to reimburse you for them!)
Yes , but only a couple and they've long since been used by the kids for
Star Trek or Noel's house party!
Re gigs.
The BARN at Walton on Thames sounds good to me, with the right sort of
promotion. I saw Show of Hands there a year or two ago one Sunday
lunchtime, both acoustics and setting are suitable for the "intimate"
concert. However I suspect that Sunday lunchtime is not the best time for a
gig , but on the other hand there were members of the (admittedly sparse)
audience both very young and old that had never been to a concert of "that
sort",(Goodness they're very good aren't they, have they been on
television?), so it can broaden the range of people that come. A dedicated
Folk club gig tends to attract only those in the know and with an
inclination to visit Folk clubs anyway. (Wow, the "F" word twice in one
sentence, I'll go and lie down now doctor.)
Chris
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:08:53 GMT
From: <email address> (Dr Jeremy Walton. Tel: <phone number>)
To: midnight.voices<email address>
Subject: MV613 Re: MV610 Re: MV607: Road of Silk, Radio Interview, Chords
Hi Hamilton,
>> There is an astonishingly powerful phrase which, for me, overshadows the
>> whole. "In time the swelling bark takes in the nails (etc)". The image of a
>> crucifixtion lost to history because the victim is still around to talk
>> (only sleeping, not aware as at one time) speaks loudly of opportunities
>> lost, turned down, simply passed by.
Sounds good - although I never associated the nails and the bark with a
crucifixion - I thought it might have something to do with the
tree-house that the tree was unable to hold on to.
Maybe "it was all a dream" is a somewhat lame explication, but lots of
these images have a surreal, backwards, quality for me - the snowfall
that lifts into the air, the tree-house that flies like a bird, the
Road of Silk that rolls backwards from Cathay (great line, that). Apart
from that, I've never been too sure what it's "about" (just like 'My
Egoist', a coupla tracks previously).
Finally, do the lead dragoons really quit the tray? I'd always assumed
it was actually the fray (is that from Shakespeare?), but I like the
idea of the echo between the words.
Cheers,
Jeremy
PS: Thanks for doing the archive, Steve - it's nicely laid out, and
provides a handy record (if naturally chaotic) of the erudite
discussions going on in here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeremy Walton <email address> |
| The Numerical Algorithms Group Ltd, Oxford, UK <phone number> |
| Fax: <fax number> |
| IRIS Explorer Center URL: http://www.nag.co.uk/Welcome_IEC.html |
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:13:09 +0000
To: midnight.voices<email address>
From: Stephen Payne <email address>
Subject: MV614: Road of Silk; Chords; Beautiful Changes
Thanks, Gerry, for the chord explanations: How I envy you guys who can hear
the music well enough to do those transcriptions.
I think all the "disagreement" about Road of Silk just shows it to be
another masterpiece. In particular, I find Ian C's image of parents over
their sleeping child enriches my feeling for the song, even though I think
it's "wrong". I'm looking forward to seeing the chords for it!
I have a suggestion for a next song to discuss - The Beautiful Changes.
I've only just started learning it - since the Monash CD arrived - but it
certainly seems rich and deep enough to stir a few contrary images.
I'm sure it's just coincidence (after all, Clive told us where the title
comes from), but given our admiration for Pete's idiosyncratic chord
sequences, I do like the way "The Beautiful Changes" can be read as a
description of Pete's music. So it would make a good title for the Second
Folio!
S
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:37:55 GMT
From: <email address> (Dr Jeremy Walton. Tel: <phone number>)
To: midnight.voices<email address>
Subject: MV615: Warning - non PA content
Hi all,
This could be opening the floodgates, but I can't see any way of
relating this to the subject of this list (so this message might not
even get past our esteemed listmeister) apart from the fact that some of
the people who like PA also like Family (and that both acts are as about
as unfashionable as you can decently get nowadays...)
Here's the thing: for a long time, I've been fond of Family's "My Friend
the Sun", and have been wanting to play it myself. However, in spite of
much noodling around, I've only been able to work out about half of it,
and I wasn't too surprised to find it missing from the guitar sites on
the web. I was therefore wondering if any of the other more skillful
musos on this list who have already managed to get some of PA's numbers
down could kindly lend their ears and help me out (of course, if someone
has access to the chords already and could send them to me, that would
be even better). Any help would be deeply appreciated.
In fact, in partial anticipated thanks (and apologies for disrupting the
flow in here) I'll undertake to transcribe one of my few remaining
pieces of PA memorabilia - an NME interview with the dynamic duo dating
from the time of the THAM release. Howsaboutthatthen?
Cheers,
Jeremy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeremy Walton <email address> |
| The Numerical Algorithms Group Ltd, Oxford, UK Tel: <phone number> |
| Fax: <fax number> |
| IRIS Explorer Center URL: http://www.nag.co.uk/Welcome_IEC.html |
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:13:55 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address> (by way of Hamilton Pruim <email address>)
From: Hamilton Pruim <email address>
Subject: MV616 Re: MV613; MV610; MV607: Road of Silk, Radio Interview,
Chords
Hi Jeremy,
Good thing is there is room for both views, but I like the sound of my own
keyboard, so I'll expand.
Seems to me to be in many ways a story of the unattainable. We start off
with a fantasy - a tree house flying away - which transfers into something
real. The nails that fix or kill (you? the fantasy? shades of Prufrock?)
are solid, immutable, and certainly decay and are swallowed by time.
Those lead dragoons are probably fed up of being pushed into war each
Sunday afternoon, but they are never going to piss off out of their box. On
the other hand, early snowflakes blow away sure as eggs is eggs.
All things must pass. Imagine having a Chinese girlfriend, say, you met on
holiday for a week or so and never had the guts - or maybe just too much
sense - to throw it all over and leave with her for the orient. Oh yes -
lipstick on a glass _doesn't_ shift easily, at least not with normal washing.
All things must pass, missed opportunities are best left alone.
Hamilton
==============================================================================
From: <email address>
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:35:04 +0000
Subject: MV617 Re: MV610 Road of Silk
Hamilton wrote,
> The Road of Silk is that path to exotica and adventure that might
> have been possible - the opposite feel to that in The Road Not
> Taken. (Robert Frost, for anyone that doesn't recognise it).
Surely the 'The Road Not Taken' is about lost opportunities as
well - though in it there is a positive feeling about how things
turned out. 'The Road Not Taken' also reminds of a
Joan Baez song - Strange Rivers " Have you ever turned the corner
and wondered why you did? You haven't been that way since you
were just a kid. Nothing really happens and then you have to say, You
wonder what would happen had you gone the other way "
I cannot get to grips with the hidden meaning in many songs or poems
and 'Road of Silk' is no different! The line 'Let him sleep now'
reminds me of the last line of Wilfred Owens 'Strange Meeting' ....
"Let us sleeps now ... " and of Brian Pattens poem inspired by it
'Sleep Now - In Memory of Wilfred Owen' In both I get the sense of
sleeping to get away from disturbing memories and in Pattens of
lessons not learnt.
In 'Road of Silk' is the subject sleeping to remember or to forget?
As Arthur Lerner wrote "It all comes down to the pain of remembering
what to forget."
And now a less than intelligent question for Steve re:pa.htm .......
why did Pete stop winking? I wasn't imagining it ..... was I???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_/\ /\_
Cary a a [ ;-) -- S ]
Like Mary @
With a 'C' for cat
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(should show a cat - if not ...
picasso eat your heart out!!)
==============================================================================
From: <email address>
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:08:01 +0000
Subject: MV618 Re: MV607: Road of Silk, Beautiful Changes
A 'by the way' re: Road of Silk ..... I've read it, I haven't heard
it. Any clues in the mood of the music. I would guess it to be of a
similar style to Touch Has a Memory though a lullaby may fit the baby
idea. Any chance of an RA clip on the site Steve.
A quick idea about Beautiful Changes to start the ball rolling. "The
clover leaf crossing now ties in a ring" .... a chance meeting ending
in marriage?
I have to say that I think this is one song that doesn't transplant
well live. I think the stirring orchestral backdrop really creates
a very powerful feeling. That's lost with a voice and a guitar and
whilst with most of the songs I think that can a different
atmosphere to me with this song it looses all emotion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_/\ /\_
Cary a a
Like Mary @
With a 'C' for cat
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(should show a cat - if not ...
picasso eat your heart out!!)
==============================================================================
From: Elphinking <email address>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:07:45 EST
To: midnight.voices<email address>
Subject: MV619 Re: MV615: Warning - non PA content
Wow, now there's a coincidence! I have just started drafting a new will to
accomodate my divorce and as part of it I have been sketching out the plans
for my own funeral...morbid I know, but I don't want a morbid service which is
the whole point of the exercise!
Anyway, My Friend the Sun has long been my favourite song and is one of the
centrepieces of my plans for the service (which I want to open with the coffin
carried in to Jollity Farm by the Bonzos, but that's another matter
altogether!!)
To try to tie this to MV, I suppose I could ask for suggestions of a PA song
for inclusion; I had thought of Perfect Moments but somehow, while my ex might
find it apt, I don't!!
==============================================================================
From: Cary <email address>
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:16:00 +0000
Subject: MV620 Re: MV617; MV610 Road of Silk
[ ;-) -- S ]
So *that* is the secret Midnight Voices sign!!
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From: "Norman, Neil" <email address>
To: 'Midnight Voices' <email address>
Subject: MV621 RE: MV619; MV615: Where there's a will
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:38:43 -0000
Perhaps your ex might prefer "Between us there is nothing"
Neil Norman
To try to tie this to MV, I suppose I could ask for suggestions of a PA song
for inclusion; I had thought of Perfect Moments but somehow, while my ex might
find it apt, I don't!!
==============================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:27:04 GMT
From: <email address> (Dr Jeremy Walton. Tel: <phone number>)
To: midnight.voices<email address>
Subject: MV622: Roads not taken
Hi Cary,
>> > The Road of Silk is that path to exotica and adventure that might
>> > have been possible - the opposite feel to that in The Road Not
>> > Taken. (Robert Frost, for anyone that doesn't recognise it).
>>
>> Surely the 'The Road Not Taken' is about lost opportunities as
>> well - though in it there is a positive feeling about how things
>> turned out. 'The Road Not Taken' also reminds of a
>> Joan Baez song - Strange Rivers " Have you ever turned the corner
>> and wondered why you did? You haven't been that way since you
>> were just a kid. Nothing really happens and then you have to say, You
>> wonder what would happen had you gone the other way "
Also relevant to this theme is that haunting CJ/PA song "The magic
wasn't there", which I have on an old Julie Covington single (and which
she gives a nice reading of on the Monyash CD), with the apposite lines:
Who was it then, the poet who once said
"How beautiful they are, the trains you miss"
...
These nothing scenes are still experience
You even weep for what did not take place
and the clincher:
And now what never happened drives me wild
Cheers,
Jeremy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeremy Walton <email address> |
| The Numerical Algorithms Group Ltd, Oxford, UK Tel: <phone number> |
| Fax: <fax number> |
| IRIS Explorer Center URL: http://www.nag.co.uk/Welcome_IEC.html |
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:36:24 GMT
From: <email address> (Dr Jeremy Walton. Tel: <phone number>
To: midnight.voices<email address>
Subject: MV623: Pete Atkin - he's dead good
Hi there,
>> Anyway, My Friend the Sun has long been my favourite song and is one of the
>> centrepieces of my plans for the service
Thanks for the support here - once I find out how to play it, I'd be
happy to perform it for you... ;-)
>> To try to tie this to MV, I suppose I could ask for suggestions of a PA song
>> for inclusion; I had thought of Perfect Moments but somehow, while my ex
>> might find it apt, I don't!!
Oh - very well, if you insist. Try one of these...
Don't bother me now
If I had my time again
All I ever did
Where have they all gone?
Nothing left to say
You can't expect to be remembered
Actually, it's surprising (or is it?) how many appropriate songs there
are in the PA catalogue for this unique occasion...
Wishing you many years of health!
Cheers,
Jeremy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeremy Walton <email address> |
| The Numerical Algorithms Group Ltd, Oxford, UK Tel: <phone number> |
| Fax: <fax number> |
| IRIS Explorer Center URL: http://www.nag.co.uk/Welcome_IEC.html |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:46:32 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV624: Steve Wright Show: saved!
Cc: Steve Salt <email address>
We've found a copy, and without the fee! Non-Voice Steve Salt taped the
interview and in response to my Website plea has sent in a tape. Stay tuned
for either a transcript or a RealAudio file on the site.
To Steve: as a non-member you probably haven't heard we are planning a
"Pete Atkin and Friends" concert on September 20th at Buxton Opera House.
You might like to reserve the date.
Many thanks
Steve
==============================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:01:54 +0000
To: midnight.voices<email address>
From: Roy Brown <email address>
Subject: MV625 Re: MV619; MV615: Warning - non PA content
In article <email address>,
Midnight Voices <email address> writes
>From: Elphinking <email address>
>Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:07:45 EST
>To: midnight.voices<email address>
>Subject: Re: MV615: Warning - non PA content
>
>Wow, now there's a coincidence! I have just started drafting a new will to
>accomodate my divorce and as part of it I have been sketching out the plans
>for my own funeral...morbid I know, but I don't want a morbid service which is
>the whole point of the exercise!
>To try to tie this to MV, I suppose I could ask for suggestions of a PA song
>for inclusion; I had thought of Perfect Moments but somehow, while my ex might
>find it apt, I don't!!
>
It's just *got* to be 'Carnations on the Roof', hasn't it?
--
Roy Brown Phone : <phone number> Fax : <fax number>
Affirm Ltd Email : <email address>
'Have nothing on your systems that you do not
<postal address> know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful.'
==============================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:03:43 +0000
To: midnight.voices<email address>
From: Roy Brown <email address>
Subject: MV626 Re: MV620; MV617; MV610 Road of Silk
In article <email address>,
Midnight Voices <email address> writes
>From: <email address>
>To: Midnight Voices <email address>
>Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:16:00 +0000
>Subject: Re: MV617 Re: MV610 Road of Silk
>
> [ ;-) -- S ]
>So *that* is the secret Midnight Voices sign!!
>
Of course.....
'Around his neck a chain with a little silver hook
Like some military order, 2nd class.....'
--
Roy Brown Phone : <phone number> Fax : <fax number>
Affirm Ltd Email : <email address>
'Have nothing on your systems that you do not
<postal address> know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful.'
==============================================================================
From: Cary <email address>
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:48:27 +0000
Subject: MV627 Re: MV622: Roads not taken
Jeremy wrote,
> Also relevant to this theme is that haunting CJ/PA song "The magic
> wasn't there"
I'd never thought of that track in the same category as 'The Road not
Taken' but you're right, it is isn't it. It's one of my all time
favorites and full of 'well worn phrases' It's also one of the few
PA/CJ songs which I can claim to understand. In fact it seems that
far more of the songs on 'The Beautiful Changes' have more obvious
and straightforward meanings than on the other pa albums.
> Who was it then, the poet who once said
> "How beautiful they are, the trains you miss"
Anyone know if this is a direct quote and if so what the source was?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_/\ /\_
Cary a a
Like Mary @
With a 'C' for cat
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(should show a cat - if not ...
picasso eat your heart out!!)
==============================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:31:51 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV628: Pete's back
Pete has been catching up with MV posts, and he's found time to deliver a
few responses to his hungry public. He stresses that the lack of a comment
from him doesn't by any means imply disagreement or even a lack of interest
in what been discussed -- S :
MV498 etc - interesting discussion about Prince of A. I think Roy's on the
button (but, as always, without wishing to deny anything anyone may get
from the song). I'd never thought of the drug connection myself, but I
can see how it might be suggested by the general ambience plus the sugar
reference.
MV501 - I know just what Ian S means about finding some things easier with
the passage of time. I've often found that having worked really hard at
figuring out something not immediately 'hearable', like some Steely Dan
stuff, for instance, it makes other things come more easily. I think maybe
every single time you play or hear something it adds to a mental database
that makes future reference easier.
MV507 - There was never any question of being 'tempted to repeat BOTBS in
subsequent albums'. I couldn't wait to use a wider range of musical
resources (subject always to tight budgets). After all, even though it
had had an encouraging amount of attention, it wasn't as if BOTBS had been
the kind of success that brings about that kind of pressure either from the
record company or from personal demons. So I can't take any credit for
having resisted temptation there.
MV512 - The 'rather loud rock outfit' who were supporting me at the Arts,
Cambridge, were Isotope, featuring Gary Moore and Hugh Hopper (ex-Soft
Machine). Musical compatibility (or, to put it another way, consideration
of the audience) rarely came (comes?) into the choice of support act. In
this case, they were willing to let me and my guys borrow their gear for
free if they got to play support.
MV513 etc - If, as Scott Fitzgerald said, "the second half of life is a
long process of getting rid of things" (from a brilliant short story called
'Three Hours Between Planes', by the way), then it is pleasingly clear that
most MVs must still be in the first half...
MV526 etc - I'm grateful for Leslie's kind comments about the Monyash
recordings, in particular H Kid and Thief. In both of those cases I had
intended to try a bit more of a different rhythmic approach than I actually
achieved. I guess I either bottled out a bit, or, as I started to play,
found that my fingers and brain wilfully slipped back onto the old tracks.
But maybe you'd have hated the way I meant to do them anyway.
MV553 - I like Neil's backstage image. I've always thought of the heroes
in the song as heroes of any and every kind, the whole song as a metaphor,
unrestricted by whatever particular weapons may be in the stack.
MV568 etc - Tritones - It's always a bit alrming to have patterns in your
work pointed out, but it does seem to be true that I use these (most)
remote intervals more than the average. But I think they're almost always
they're as a result of my attempts sometimes to avoid the expected. The
fact is that although there have been some references to 'my' chord
sequences, that's never been how I've written. For me, the rhythm comes
first in a song, and then the melody. The harmony is often almost an
afterthought, a way of underpinning or reinforcing the melody, or sometimes
of subverting it. Sometimes a particular harmonic idea makes the melody go
off in a different direction, but I've never 'worked out' a chord sequence
and then written something over the top of it..
MV570 - Most impressive stuff again form Tom H. Watch out when he starts
on the real (his wholly own) stuff.
MV572 - small addition to annotation - the novel that The Brasher Doubloon
was derived from was called The High Window.
MV573 - Nothing whatever was released anywhere outside the UK.
MV574/5 - Yes, it just sounded right at the time (see elsewhere passim)
MV580 - Just reinforces for me the notion that, quite simply, the lyrics
are not poems. They are discussable to some extent as poems, but they are
significantly different in nature.
MV584/9 - I take back what I said about the Db7 in KAN, 'wrong' or not. E
is NOT an acceptable substitute, not to me, at any rate. Even B7 would be
better, but I can't bring myself to play either instead of Db7. Good
grief, if any of the songs is about displacement this one is, and that
conventional G-E7 change is not what's wanted here. I wasn't looking for a
natural bridge between G and Am. Play the alternatives if you must, but
please don't do it where I can hear.
MV588 - I always assume that a 9th chord implicitly includes the 7th unless
otherwise indicated.
MV607 - Gerry Smith's version of Em9(no7) works fine, but for me that 9th
stuck away on the top always sounds a bit separated-out. In the context of
AKAN I personally prefer to play it with the F# on the D string: in other
words stop the 5th string on the 2nd fret and the 4th string on the 4th
fret. That gives you a nice crunchy semitone in the middle of the chord, a
flamenco-y, Gil Evans-y effect, especially if you strum it kind of loosely,
more like an impressionistic multiple arpeggio than a clean-struck chord.
==============================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:31:59 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV629 Re: MV627; MV622: Roads not taken
Laforgue said (Derniers Vers X) "Oh, qu'ils sont pittoresques les trains
manqués!". Don't know if that's the original source -- seem to remember
Clive quoting it slightly differently in one of his books -- S.
==============================================================================
From: IChippett <email address>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:44:08 EST
To: midnight.voices<email address>
Subject: MV630: The Seventh album
I just got my C.D.s yesterday and have been having a great time listening to
all the stuff I had never heard before especially "History and Geography" and
Julie Covington's songs.
Does anybody know what songs, apart from "Canoe" and "Search and Destroy" and
"The Eye of the Universe" would have been included on the legendary unrecorded
7th album and what it would have been called? Is there any chance Pete might
one day record it? I suppose he could call it "Smile" or "The Basement
Tapes"...
Ian C
==============================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:18:57 +0000
To: midnight.voices<email address>
From: Roy Brown <email address>
Subject: MV631 Re: MV616; MV613; MV610; MV607: Road of Silk, Radio Interview, Chords
In article <email address>,
Midnight Voices <email address> writes
<Re TROS>
>
>Seems to me to be in many ways a story of the unattainable. We start off
>with a fantasy - a tree house flying away - which transfers into something
>real. The nails that fix or kill (you? the fantasy? shades of Prufrock?)
>are solid, immutable, and certainly decay and are swallowed by time.
>
>Those lead dragoons are probably fed up of being pushed into war each
>Sunday afternoon, but they are never going to piss off out of their box. On
>the other hand, early snowflakes blow away sure as eggs is eggs.
>
>All things must pass. Imagine having a Chinese girlfriend, say, you met on
>holiday for a week or so and never had the guts - or maybe just too much
>sense - to throw it all over and leave with her for the orient. Oh yes -
>lipstick on a glass _doesn't_ shift easily, at least not with normal washing.
>
Tough one, isn't it? But, emboldened by Pete's kind endorsement of my
interpretation of PoA, I will put in my 2p's worth....
I think - with absolutely no justification whatever - that this is the
old man from 'Faded Mansion on a Hill', who Time is finally finding the
time to kill. It's those sails again; 'the cats and wingsails pull
away'.
His memories are unravelling, so time is going backward for him - the
snow falls up, not down; the Road of Silk winds backward from, not
onward to, Cathay; and the lead dragoons are (a Christmas present?)
'taken back' from the place they were kept.
Yes, it's 'tray', not 'fray'. As sung on the LP, printed on the sleeve,
and as written in AFF. As you say, probably a play on words. Lead
soldiers weren't abolished all that long ago, BTW - I had some as a boy,
and I'm 'only' a contemporary of Pete's.
They say, as you fade, that childhood memories are the last to go, and
they go in reverse order. The tree-house does seem to be going
'forwards', but maybe the imagery of this going backwards would be just
too jarring?
Anyway, I do remember that circle. One night, the clowns, the acrobats,
the lions and tigers, the lights, the glitter, the music.
Next day, just marks in the grass where it had all been, odd bits of
straw, the scuff-marks at the entrance where we had all trooped in.
How else to know it had ever really happened?
--
Roy Brown Phone : <phone number> Fax : <fax number>
Affirm Ltd Email : <email address>
'Have nothing on your systems that you do not
<postal address> know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful.'
==============================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:17:03 +0000
To: midnight.voices<email address>
From: Roy Brown <email address>
Subject: MV632 Re: MV618; MV607: Road of Silk, Beautiful Changes
In article <email address>,
Midnight Voices <email address> writes
>
>A quick idea about Beautiful Changes to start the ball rolling. "The
>clover leaf crossing now ties in a ring" .... a chance meeting ending
>in marriage?
I have the rather more prosaic Gravelly Hill Intersection (Spaghetti
Junction) finally completing the motorway ring round Birmingham.
But I'd rather you were right.......
--
Roy Brown Phone : <phone number> Fax : <fax number>
Affirm Ltd Email : <email address>
'Have nothing on your systems that you do not
<postal address> know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful.'
==============================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:57:33 +0000
To: midnight.voices<email address>
From: Christine Guilfoyle <email address>
Subject: MV633: Road of Silk
Hello, all. Hope I'm not too late to add my two pennyworth of TROS
before we move on to 'The Beautiful Changes'. I've been intrigued by the
discussion about what I've always felt to be a lovely, but somewhat
enigmatic song.
Diplomat as I am, I tend to agree with almost everyone who's written
about it, one way or another. I don't think there's much point in
chasing a definitive reading of the lyric - Clive James' style is always
consciously allusive (another 'theft' from Eliot...), and sets off
regular depth-charges of meaning, sometimes fairly explicit (eg, POA)
but often more buried, probably with varying degrees of conscious
intention. For me, the 'meaning' of the song emerges from the dialogue
between these various connotations, including those personal ones we
bring as listeners (for me, 'The Faded Mansion on the Hill' conjures up
images of night and snow, which is nothing to do with anything Pete or
Clive ever wrote and is another story entirely...)
TROS is an excellent case in point. For years, I assumed, without really
thinking much about it, that it was a song about someone dying. Then,
for some reason, I looked a bit harder at the lyrics and (maybe because
I had small children of my own by this point) I realised that it could
simply be about a child sleeping. Having looked yet again, in the light
of the MV discussion, I think there's something quite complicated going
on in the song (or, more accurately, in my head as I listen to it).
So...
From one perspective, it's a song about a child going to sleep (lots of
childhood imagery - tree-house, lead dragoons, adventures, circus, etc).
As the child drifts into sleep, the solid images dissolve into dreams
('the tree house leaves the peach tree..'). But inherent in this
dissolution is imagery of growth and aging ('in time the swelling bark
takes in the nails'), about potential and its fulfilment/loss ('the road
of silk rolls backward', 'the circus leaves a circle', etc).
But then, from another perspective, it's a song about someone dying,
probably in old age, with that potential realised/missed. Recent (adult)
memories fade ('just so long as lipstick on a glass') while, closing the
loop, childhood images are regained, bringing a different kind of
resolution - the imagery of a film running in reverse ('early snowfall
lifts into the air' etc).
For me, the success of the lyric is that it telescopes these conflicting
but complementary ideas into a very concise, precise (but ambiguous) set
of extraordinary images. Its 'meaning' (its poignancy and power) results
from the resonance between the available interpretations. It's a trick
Clive James tries a few times (a trick it takes a little time to learn,
no doubt...), 'Canoe' being a superb and more straightforward example,
but for me this is the most effective.
I suppose the upshot of these ramblings is that we shouldn't worry too
much about pinning down the 'right' interpretation of the lyrics, but
just recognise that sharing our personal responses adds to the overall
richness of the songs (though, maybe, having ploughed through all this,
you'd prefer me never to share my responses again...)
Oh, and by the way, we got our own Silk Road up here in Cheshire, if
anyone fancies a September pilgrimage from Buxton to Macclesfield, but I
don't think it would feature in anyone's childhood dreams...
--
Mike Walters
==============================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:11:18 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV634: By request: Road of Silk in RealAudio
http://www.rwtltd.demon.co.uk/tros.ram
or via
http://www.rwt.co.uk/audio.htm
-- Steve
==============================================================================
From: Cary <email address>
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:59:15 +0000
Subject: MV635 Re: MV634: By request: Road of Silk in RealAudio
Thank you Steve.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_/\ /\_
Cary a a
Like Mary @
With a 'C' for cat
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(should show a cat - if not ...
picasso eat your heart out!!)
==============================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:45:56 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: Leslie Moss <email address>
Subject: MV636: The Beautiful Changes
Recent MVs have talked about some of the songs on the Beautiful Changes
album and also about what is distinctive about PA's music. Some thoughts
I've had.
Someone commented on the relative lack of middle eights in Pete's songs, and
The Beautiful Changes is a prime example of that. I find this song always
reminds me musically of The Eagles' song "The Last Resort" from the Hotel
Calaifornia album, which also has this quality of building up by repetition
(I'm with Cary insofar as the song definitely works better on album than it
did with just a voice and guitar, much as it was a pleasure to hear the song
at Monyash). In fact, the entire Hotel California album is full of songs
without middle eights, including the title song. Another good example is
from an Elton John album, a song called Ticking.
In all these songs the lack of a middle eight seems to give the song a much
less predictable and more powerful character. It's ironic that the effect of
the repetition of the main theme leaves me with a sense of unpredictability
about how and when the song is going to end.
There seem to be another characteristic of many of Pete and Clive's songs
and that is a final extra line inserted just before the close:
"Is the way the inhuman is always the same".
The same feature is found in "The Magic Wasn't There"
"And now what never happened drives me wild"
For me, both the presence of this extra line and the way in which the line
builds an unexpected extra musical tension to be resolved in the final
repetition of the title line is completely unique to Pete and Clive's
writing. I haven't thought in detail about other songs with this feature,
but I'm sure that they are.
Leslie
==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:20:38 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV637: Steve Wright Interview in RA
Pete and Clive's Christmas show interview can be heard at
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/1521/swrightm.ram
or via
http://www.rwt.co.uk/audio.htm
-- it runs for about 10 minutes.
Or follow this link and choose "save file" to download the RA file
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/1521/swrightm.ra
for playing off-line in your own time. It's over 1Mbyte big though.
-- Steve
==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:54:55 +0000
To: midnight.voices<email address>
From: Gerald Smith <email address>
Subject: MV638: Radio Interview
Has anyone else had problems downloading to Disk the Steve Wright
interview? I tried doing this earlier and for some reason my machine seems
only to have captured the first minute or so. When I tried downloading
again, my computer told me the file was already there. What should I do?
Gerry Smith
==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:06:39 +0000
To: Midnight Voices <email address>
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV639 Re: MV638: Radio Interview
>
> Has anyone else had problems downloading to Disk the Steve Wright
>interview? I tried doing this earlier and for some reason my machine seems
>only to have captured the first minute or so. When I tried downloading
>again, my computer told me the file was already there. What should I do?
>
Yes, I have! Sorry Gerry, just checked the site and, despite having
uploaded over a megabyte to GeoCities, the file size is showing only a
tenth of that. I'd already sent it to Dragonfire this morning and checked
download OK, but the site was so slow I couldn't connect for HTTP
streaming. So I swapped it to GeoCities, but then didn't give it a full
test. All my fault.
So now I'm attempting the upload again, to see if it works this time!
You'll need to delete the partial file on your disk and run the download
again, if I'm successful.
Regards, Steve
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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