Midnight Voices                      
The discussion forum for fans of Pete Atkin and Clive James,
their works and collaborators on stage, TV, disc and in print.

Web Digest week 16 (14.12.97, MV505 - 544) begins | index | prev | next |
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Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:46:11 +0000
From: Leslie Moss <email address>
Subject: MV505: Clive on Channel 5

For those of you unable to get Channel 5, Clive was interviewed by
well-known TV/film "thnining man's crumpet" Mariella Frostrup in her weekly
arts shows this morning. Although the bulk of the interview concerned
Clive's new novel, Mariella reminded the audience that Clive's career had
included lyric-writing, giving Clive the opportunity to speak warmly of his
association with Pete, the new CD and us Internet enthusiasts. Mariella gave
him time to elaborate on these and also mentioned the album in her summing
up at the end, although I was not sure about her description of the songs as
"quirky" - yes for say Frangipanni was Her Flower but hardly a description
of Faded Mansion on the Hill.

Thank you Clive for using the opportunity to give Pete a boost - let's hope
that despite the poor ratings of Channel 5 some newcomers at least are
tempted to enquire about the album.

Leslie

==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:02:23 +0000
From: Midnight Voices <email address>
Subject: MV506: Numbering Error re MV503

Apologies all. The second "MV503", "MV 421, 448:  A belated reply" from Mel
Powell should have had the designation MV504. The real MV503 is my own
"Stop Press". Sorry Mel. -- Steve

==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:19:55 +0000
From: Leslie Moss <email address>
Subject: MV507 Re: MV504 (was MV503): MV 421, 448:  A belated reply

Having read Mel's fascinating and passionate manifesto for why the songs are
worthy of such attention, I found myself thinking about my own
rite-de-passage. I was hooked by the first album, especially the humorous
songs like Girl on a Train and Honky Tonk Train. They seemed to embody a
slice of irony that was very different from my other musical tastes of the
time, and the voice (especially in Girl on a Train and Tonight Your Love is
Over) of the outsider spoke strongly to an impressionable eighteen-year old
just up to Cambridge and struggling to find an identity and a mode of
communication with this alien species called girls.

In common with many other MV's, I tried my hand at singing the simpler songs
mainly from the first two albums at folk evenings (my all-time success was
always Ballad of an Upstairs Window long before it appeared on the Live
Libel album). I retain much affection for those songs and still pay them today.

It was much later before I realised that the subsequent albums had so much
to offer. The songs that will live on are in my view largely found in the
second, third and fourth albums. No doubt it was tempting for Pete and Clive
to repeat BOTBS in subsequent albums but I for one am very glad that they
resisted the temptation. The fact that these songs are susceptible to such
detailed exegesis by Mel and others only goes to emphasise their depth.

My observation of this group and of other former PA enthusiasts is that they
fall into distinct groups, those who discovered PA at around King at
Nightfall and for whom therefore most of the new CD is new to them, and
those who were BOTBS lovers and worked forward from there. As a member of
the latter group, I can't wait for further CD releases.

Leslie

==============================================================================
From: cjb<email address>
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:12:47 +0000
Subject: MV508 Re: MV505: Clive on Channel 5

Leslie wrote,
> although I was not sure about her
> description of the songs as "quirky" - yes for say Frangipanni was
> Her Flower but hardly a description of Faded Mansion on the Hill.

Having myself described some of pa/cj songs as quirky I didn't baulk 
at Mariella's description. Being in such intellectual and literary 
company I though a quick trip to the dictionary was called for to make 
sure what I saw as a complement was that. From the Concise Oxford 
Dictionary  " Quirk - twist or flourish in drawing or writing "  That 
seems to me to be a perfect description some of the songs. It's 
interesting also that the one song that Leslie mentions in agreement 
of the quirky label is the one song that I professed to hate but 
found myself singing. Like with the discussion of words or music, 
are the quirky songs are the hook that get you listening to the many 
depths in the other songs? I wonder if Mariella will go on to listen 
to the other songs.

As a side issue, seeking opinions, from Pete, Clive or any of the 
voices. If when writing the lyrics Clive had known they would be 
subjected to such minute dissection do you think he would have 
changed his writing style? Clive used so many references which have 
been made much more accessible by the vast encyclopaedia which is the 
www. I suspect he would have used even more giving the song the 
added dimension of a treasure hunt. Will modern lyricists be more 
mindful of the discussions which may go on. Will it influence their 
styles. Many writers are, as in this case, members of the mail lists. 
Will writing become a more collaborative process between writer and 
listener?
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~        
                _/\     /\_
    Cary       a    a
 Like Mary    @ 
    With  a     'C'    for cat
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(should show a cat - if not ... 
picasso eat your heart out!!)
==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:05:25 -0800
From: Graeme Aldous <email address>
Subject: MV509: SFM CD AVAILABILITY

Just for the record (no pun intended), Alan Fernley Records of Linthorpe
Road, Middlesbrough (yes, Yankee Dave Jones, you'll remember it well!)
managed to get me the SFM CD in just over a week.  At first he promised
it next day, but when I went back he claimed "it must be deleted -- it's
not in my catalogue".  When I explained it was NEW, he tried again, and
was a little dischuffed that his distributor took as long as a week. 
"Blame it on the Christmas pressure!"

But now the ultimate torture -- I'm not allowed to listen to it until
Christmas, but the mother-in-law doesn't have a CD player for use on
Christmas morning.  A compromise has been reached -- I've been permitted
to dub it (silently) to cassette, so we can listen in the car coming
back over the Pennines on Boxing Day night.

THERE's a treat to look forward to!

Festive Jollities to all.
-- 
GRAEME ALDOUS.

"And Lo, so it came to pass that on the Seventh Day,
the system crashed!"

==============================================================================
From: RGIBSONESQ <email address>
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 21:48:48 EST
Subject: MV510 Re: MV508; MV505: Clive on Channel 5

In a message dated 97-12-14 11:25:45 EST, you write:

<< If when writing the lyrics Clive had known they would be 
 subjected to such minute dissection do you think he would have 
 changed his writing style? Clive used so many references which have 
 been made much more accessible by the vast encyclopaedia which is the 
 www. >>

My view is based mainly on the young CJ as revealed in his autobiogrphies and
is that Clive had found his literary knowledge, and ability to re-use it, a
wonderful social tool and a way to impress.  I believe he was very aware that
the references he made and the inspiration he took were deep to the point that
they invited dissection.  Perhaps he was playing something of a game with
those who he thought would listen to PA's music.

Regards
Richard

==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:32:11 GMT
From: <email address> (Dr Jeremy Walton)
Subject: MV511: Where have they all gone?  Archive those voices!

Mel's interesting introduction and apologia has reminded me of a
question I've been meaning to pose for a while (Steve:) would you
consider posting the MV archives to the website?  This would be a handy
way for new readers to catch up on previous discussions, and might even
draw idle browsers into the group once they realise what a fantastically
interesting, dedicated and friendly bunch we all are.  Many's the
brilliant and stimulating contribution to MV (occasionally even written
by somebody else ;-) ) that I've wanted to save, and wondered whether
others would be doing the same.

The other inspiration for this suggestion comes from Notes From The
Edge, the Yes mailing list and website (http://www.wilmington.net/yes/)
which consists mainly of archives from the list (postings are collected
together and sent out monthly).  There, the amount of activity is a good
indicator that music which has apparently died out long ago is still
alive and well in people's hearts.  

Would this be possible here?  Or is time and space at a premium.  It's
just an idea.  Thanks again for providing this crucial service which
goes some way to making sense of the litter of our lives...

Cheers,

Jeremy

==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:43:13 +0000
From: Roy Brown <email address>
Subject: MV512: MV510 Dissecting the lyrics

In article <email address>,
Midnight Voices <email address> writes
>From: RGIBSONESQ <email address>
>Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 21:48:48 EST
>To: midnight.voices<email address>
>Subject: Re: MV508 Re: MV505: Clive on Channel 5
>
>In a message dated 97-12-14 11:25:45 EST, you write:
>
><< If when writing the lyrics Clive had known they would be 
> subjected to such minute dissection do you think he would have 
> changed his writing style? Clive used so many references which have 
> been made much more accessible by the vast encyclopaedia which is the 
> www. >>
>
>My view is based mainly on the young CJ as revealed in his autobiogrphies and
>is that Clive had found his literary knowledge, and ability to re-use it, a
>wonderful social tool and a way to impress.  I believe he was very aware that
>the references he made and the inspiration he took were deep to the point that
>they invited dissection.  Perhaps he was playing something of a game with
>those who he thought would listen to PA's music.
>
>Regards
>Richard
>
FWIW, I recognised the same bemused Clive James in his Email as the man
I met years ago in the restaurant of the Arts Theatre in Cambridge, when
Pete was doing his live set with electric backing; the musos from
AKAN/TROS IIRC.

We were all in the restaurant because we were sitting out the support
act; a rather loud rock outfit not at all to our taste, who seemed to
have been chosen because they played the same range of instruments as
Pete's band, rather than anything remotely resembling the same music.

Clive was at the next table, and I asked him about 'Faded Mansion on the
Hill'; I knew it to be beautiful, but I wanted to know more. Clive was
frendly, and more than willing to talk. However, his answers made the
song seem almost as much of a beautiful stranger to him as it was to me.

Maybe the images pressed in so thick and fast that it was all he could
do to get them down on paper. And I can imagine him having to look up
some of his *own* literary allusions afterwards; words and phrases
bubbling out of his consciousness on to the page. 

But what Clive was intrigued by, even then, was who their audience was,
exactly. Who came to see Pete Atkin perform? Me for instance; what
brought me there? Maybe I was the first of us 'friendly aliens' that
Clive ever met; I don't know. But he seemed surprised, and flattered,
that I'd followed the thread both backwards and forwards from BOTBS, and
knew the stuff so well.

But why instead of a broad spectrum of appreciation, this narrow band?
And of almost fanatical devotion? And I couldn't tell him, any more than
he could tell me what underlay Faded Mansion.....


And yesterday from midday (after CJ and MF) until six, I thought about
it some more.....

I think if you are brought up in Australia, you get a rather higher
opinion of the level of British cultural tastes than is quite merited.
And if you come from Australia to Cambridge Uni, the illusion can stay
in place for a lot longer.

I think Clive thought that what he and Pete were doing was par for the
course, and would meet with wide acceptance among the enormous and
discerning audience out there, who would like it, enjoy it well enough,
and then move on. It went without saying that they would 'get the
references'.

Instead, CJ and PA produced something quite exceptional, which met with
narrow, but fanatical, acceptance from a small and discerning audience
who loved it, revelled in it, had, if not their actual lives, then their
very outlook on life changed by it, and, even if we ourselves moved on,
never left it behind.

(My wife reminded me, watching CJ yesterday, that I had DTMA on the car
stereo the first time I ever took her out. Fortunately, she'd liked it.
What if she hadn't? Now *there's* life-changing).

No, we didn't all 'get the references'. Often the reverse. Instead of
recognising a literary allusion in one of the songs, we would chase it
down, and find something that was a revelation to read. And recognise
the allusion *from* the song.

Anyway, Clive finally hit the denominator of British taste, as he wished
if not as he expected, with Endurance and Margarita Pracatan.

Boo-hoo! I want to live in the England of Clive's dreams, not of his
reality...... (Aahhhh. Could that be it, do you think?)


-- 
Roy Brown

 'Have nothing on your systems that you do not    
 know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful.' 

==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:42:35 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV513 Re: MV511: Where have they all gone?  Archive those voices!

Jeremy,

Yes, this is something I'd very much like to do, but only if it didn't
upset anyone here. A few of our members expressed concern on joining MV
that our dialogues didn't become accessible to search engines and e-mail
bandits. I would at the very least need to excise members' e-mail and
postal addresses and phone numbers embedded in messages and sigs, before
releasing to the World At Large.

The principal resource limitation here isn't server space (I've spread the
site across several free Web servers already, as well as RWT's own, and
there's still a lot of duplication) but my own time. But an indexed
archive (index in HTML, messages as text), updated weekly or even monthly, 
wouldn't be too onerous (and I'm definitely not angling for anyone else to 
take it on).

As one of those sad individuals who carefully file every issue of journals
which others regard as ephemera and bin after reading (my collection of
Wireless World dates from 1955, when I was 9 years old -- tiresome infant
prodigy), I'm also wary of exposing my obsessions to those who don't share
them. [The ephemeral doesn't always stand constant repetition, but hell, I
wish I'd taped the whole of that 'What are you doing after the show'
series, and a few more of those early (late 60s) BBC radio Kenny Everett
shows should have been preserved, to show the kids what wireless wizardry
is all about.] The real world (which includes a few of even our members)
might be overwhelmed by my enthusiasm, and underwhelmed by what it
delivers. Since (and prior to, too) announcing the availability by e-mail
of MV 'back issues' in digest form I've had only one request for a re-send,
despite the constant influx of new recruits and a steady background level
of 'bounce' notifications ( -- I could even suspect some e-mail hosts of
implementing a decimation policy!). Perhaps they really care, and don't want 
to bother me, but I firmly believe that most of our number delete each 
message after reading, and never even notice when one is missing.

The Web is a gift for those seeking the illusion of permanence; the ability
to archive the old tapes digitally, to CD even, also. I know Pete feels the
same -- the early recordings, the songs, the chords, the lyrics we are
helping to preserve when in a generation's time, without intervention, the
master tapes could have shed their remaining oxide and the last vinyl
groove been lost to scratches and modulation noise. That's why we're doing it.

So I'm gratified someone else would like to see a Web archive. Yes, no
opportunity necessary then to ensure the survival of every little thing, to
save the sweetness of the fragile time and (a) word, beyond and before,
moving too close to the edge of the roundabout and disappearing into the
topographic ocean of perpetual change (huh? Doesn't quite measure up to the
Jamesian lyrical standard, does it Jon?). Unlike most of the litter of our
lives it won't require our surviving loved ones to hire a skip. I'll make a
start any day now.

Regards -- Steve

==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:07:43 -0500
From: Frances Kemmish <email address>
Subject: MV514 Re: MV513; MV511: Where have they all gone?  Archive those
	  voices!

Midnight Voices wrote:

>  Perhaps they really care, and don't
> want to bother me, but I firmly believe that most of our number delete each
> message after reading, and never even notice when one is missing.

Delete after reading?? Are you mad? I have saved every message from the
list, except for the ones I sent - and which I hold in my 'Sent' mail
file. Of course, my work is documentary research so I know the value of
'ephemera'.

Fran

==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 07:07:28 PST
From: "Jones,David L" <email address>
Subject: MV515 RE: MV513; MV511: Where have they all gone?  Archive those vo

It ought to be possible to make the archive robot-proof by simply
adopting a different access method. For instance, instead of a plain
hyperlink,  you could use a pushbutton backed up by a cgi-bin script.
Robots only load pages they can get from a hyperlink (at least for
the moment).

Another trick would be to put up a graphic and tell people to 'click
on Clive's ear' or something to access the archive.

Dave J.
Who is by no means a Yankee, Graeme. Why, I ate Marmite only
last week.  And it's "Fearnley's"  (who weren't able to turn up any
Pete Atkin or John Martyn when my parents asked them...)

==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:55:13 -0500
From: Chris Harris <email address>
Subject: MV516: Moneyash tapes. PAL to NTSC.

Steve,
        I received your PAL VHS master and CD's this morning . Many thanks
for the latter. I hope to make a start on the conversions in the next day
or two.  

Regards,

Chris.

==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:06:00 +0000
From: Gerald Smith <email address>
Subject: MV517 Re. MV513; MV511: Where have they all gone? 

Hello All

Steve wrote:

>As one of those sad individuals who carefully file every issue of journals
>which others regard as ephemera and bin after reading (my collection of
>Wireless World dates from 1955, when I was 9 years old .....

> but I firmly believe that most of our number delete each (MV)
>message after reading, and never even notice when one is missing.


And I thought I was alone in being an inveterate hoarder!  Although I have
no collections dating back to 1955 I've got years worth of 'Private Eye',
'Amateur Photographer' (of no use at all!) stacks of various ephemera, eg
bus timetables from the 60's & 70's, gig tickets from my student days,
stacks of campus magazines, menus, bus and railway tickets plus a full
complement of 'O' Level, 'A' Level and degree notes, all taking up valuable
shelf and loft space!

Needless to say, I have the full whack of MV postings taking up valuable
disk space in their own separate mailbox on my PC!

I agree with Jeremy - an archive of MV postings or, maybe, a 'pick of the
MV's' freely available on the www could well generate further interest
amongst admirers old and new. Of course, this already exists to a limited
extent in the form of the gig reviews and comments pages.


Gerald Smith

==============================================================================
From: Elphinking <email address>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:36:51 EST
Subject: MV518 Re: MV508; MV505: Clive on Channel 5

A BBC gardening programme illustrated the Frangipanni on Sunday and it was a
truly spectacular flower, a white star with a yellow centre. Just another
quirky little illumination.

==============================================================================
From: IChippett <email address>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:51:47 EST
Subject: MV519: Prince of Acquitaine, My Egoist, etc

Like a lot of other Voices, I can remember the first time I had the chance to
compare the experience of flying by night with the celebrated lines on "The
Prince Of Acquitaine". I remember how the lights of Cardiff looked at 3.00
a.m. as we landed. My feelings were slightly more mixed at the time as we were
supposed to be landing in Bristol at 9.00p.m. but that's by the way.
Incidentally, I don't go along with the drug dealer theory: the whole song
seems to be about the never-to-be-filled (?) gap between the privileged and
the rest as observed by one of the few who is aware of his privileged status
and incapable of doing anything to change things. The ironic line about the
envelope of sugar seems to clinch this interpretation. 

Stephen Payne wonders if the chords of "The Hypertension Kid" as seen on the
site are really the ones I terrify my bedroom mirror with. In fact, what
happens when you send a transcription to the site is that Steve sends them to
the Oracle who corrects them if necessary (which in my case this means every
time) and sends them back for final publication. Thus when you read the words
"suggested by... " at the bottom of the page rather than "transcribed by..."
it means I've cocked it up again. In this case I really screwed up the last
line by "hearing" what I imagine any other musician would have written and got
away with without blame rather than what Pete actually wrote. I heard C-D-E
minor rather than D-B7-C, quite unforgiveably in the circumstances. 

Talking of transcriptions, if I remember rightly, the First Folio version of
"My Egoist" was in D but the transcription is in C. Am I right? It's
impossible to play the song on the guitar in any key as you always seem to end
up in D Flat or E Flat no matter where you start. 

The song has always been a favourite but it took a long time for me to notice
the clever rhyme structure whereby the second from last word in the third line
rhymes with the last word of the final line i.e. "away" and "gay", "crushed"
and "plush", "came" and "same" and "flight" and "night". Yet the final word of
the second line rhymes with the final word of the third line. All this without
it jumping off the page to say "Look how clever I am!" I'm sure the other
Voices can find other examples.

How about a "Hunt the Tritone Contest"? I've found one in every song on Side
One of "Secret Drinker" except "National Steel". Is this a PA trademark? I've
never come across another songwriter who uses them so often or less
obtrusively. 

Finally, what are Spanish goldtrails?

Ian

==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:39:44 +0000
From: Paul C Reid <email address>
Subject: MV520: MV519 My Egoist

Dear Ian,
Sorry, but My Egoist is in C in "A First Folio" and the transcription on
the website is spot on.
Yours with a battered copy,
Paul Reid

==============================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:02:04 GMT
Subject: MV521 (Fwd) MV519: Prince of Acquitaine, My Egoist, etc
From: <email address> (Stephen R Bennett)

Ian, asked, 
 
>Finally, what are Spanish goldtrails? 
 
As I read it  "the spanish gold trails in the sky" 
refer to the efforts of the Conquistadors to locate the gold of the Incas'
by climbing higher and higher into the Andes, to trails up to Machu Picchu
spring to mind !. 
 
Slightly off topic, does anyone out there now if the childrens Author and
Poet Michael Rosen is the same person who was formerly a musician with
Ecclection 
from '67 to '69 and later with Mogul Thrash .  
 
Steve Bennett 
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..COME FRIENDLY BOMBS AND FALL ON-------------------. 
                                 Sir J.B. 

==============================================================================
From:	"Maurice J. Lovelock" <email address>
Date:	Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:56:59 -5
Subject: MV522: New (almost!) CD release

I now have a limited number of BTBS/DTMA CD's available for North 
American members of Voices.  Price is $30.00 Cdn, $22.50 U.S. FOB 
Toronto.  I will ship Fedex collect anywhere in the US or Canada.  
Place your orders directly to me or through "Voices"  Immediate 
shipment guaranteed.  Power to Pete!!!!  M :)

==============================================================================
From: "Norman, Neil" <email address>
Subject: MV523: Spanish Gold Trails
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:20:03 -0000

I suppose it was the time and the place, but I always thought Spanish 
Gold Trails was a version of Acapulco Gold Trails (of smoke that is).

Neil

----------
==============================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:31:08 +0000
From: Ian Sorensen <email address>
Subject: MV524: Happy Hols Guaranteed

I even forgave the postman for waking me up half an hour before my alarm
goes off, because Christmas came early today: the Monyash CDs and video
arrived!

Unlike a certain poor henpecked Voice who has to wait until the 25th to
hear his present I've been sitting at work all morning listening to the
first Pete Atkin concert I've been to for over 20 years. And tonight the
video hits the big screen.....

The CD recordings are great quality, and it's especially good to finally
hear the songs that aren't on the 6 albums I've worn out over the years. I
have to say I found "Canoe" the most affecting, and can now understand why
it crops up in MV discussions a lot. Ah, if only I'd made it to the
festival...

Thanks for all the work you've put into this project Steve, you've
certainly made this an Christmas to remember for me.

Ian Sorensen

==============================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:55:28 -0700 (MST)
From: orange<email address>
Subject: MV525 Re: MV522: New (almost!) CD release

>I now have a limited number of BTBS/DTMA CD's available for North 
>American members of Voices.  Price is $30.00 Cdn, $22.50 U.S. FOB 
>Toronto.  I will ship Fedex collect anywhere in the US or Canada.  
>Place your orders directly to me or through "Voices"  Immediate 
>shipment guaranteed.  Power to Pete!!!!  M :)
>

I didn't realise that you were ordering in bulk. My CD arrived yesterday
direct from the UK (via my brother), and what a joy it was to hear the
entire albums after so many years! I'd forgotten just how good they are. My
kids are not impressed, but after a few more loud playings, I hope that the
neighbours will be converted, in which case I'll point them in your direction...

Jeff Moss
(near Edmonton, W. Canada)

==============================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:35:58 +0000
From: Leslie Moss <email address>
Subject: MV526 Re: MV524: Happy Hols Guaranteed

>I even forgave the postman for waking me up half an hour before my alarm
>goes off, because Christmas came early today: the Monyash CDs and video
>arrived!

>Thanks for all the work you've put into this project Steve, you've
>certainly made this an Christmas to remember for me.
>
>Ian Sorensen
>
My Xmas came early too, and I've also been listening to the CDs, though the
screen debut has to wait until tomorrow. The sound quality is excellent, and
it brought back happy memories of a magical summer evening. I'd forgotten
just how many songs Pete and Julie had sung in that set. It's amazing how
strong songs like Hypertension Kid and Thief in the Night are only a guitar
or electric piano for accompaniment.

One question - how come my voice hasn't survived the last twenty odd years
with as little deterioration as Pete's?!

Another Voice to add to the thanks to Steve - do you ever get any *real*
work done?

Leslie

==============================================================================
From: cjb<email address>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:22:28 +0000
Subject: MV527 Re: MV526; MV524: Happy Hols Guaranteed

Ditto to all comments about Christmas coming early - Thanks Steve
The CD and Video reinforce for me that there is something very 
special going on .... it's a pleasure to be a part of it and to 
share it with others.

Dare I mention Steve's deliberate mistake on the enclosure? Should 
someone tell him next year is 1998? With a wave of his magic wand 
he's made us all ten years younger .... what a great effect Pete's 
music has.

Happy Christmas to all The Voices.
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~        
                _/\     /\_
    Cary       a    a
 Like Mary    @ 
    With  a     'C'    for cat
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(should show a cat - if not ... 
picasso eat your heart out!!)

==============================================================================
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:54:33 -0500
From: <email address> (Stuart Reeves)
Subject: MV528: Hi

A few words from one who has been a silent Voice until now!

Magpie - I had no problems, and as I am an American voice (or rather, an
ex-English voice living in the States), I think that is pretty good.  The
fact that I live in the States means that my spell checker can't spell
properly, so please excuse me.  And why on earth doesn't it include "Clive"
in its dictionary?  A song could be written about that.

Favorite lines.  A couple of them have been mentioned - Slight but
considerable danger, An hour alone spells freedom.  But my all time
favorite is still "the secret is not to stop the sliding, but to find a
graceful way of staying slid."  That thought has comforted me many a time,
and has passed into my vocabulary of strange sayings that I come out with
occasionally.  "It must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of
Thursdays" is another one that always raises more questions here than in
UK.

I have always loved poetry, and have often thought that many of the
classical rhyming poems could be put to music.  I always thought Kipling
was a prime example, and then Peter Bellamy demonstrated that it could be
done with Barrack Room Ballads.  So I have always thought of the songs as
poems put to music, with the emphasis on poem, not song.  And as poems I
have always found that one of the lasting impressions on me is that of
images in my brain rather than a remembrance of words.  I have a very
specific (and personal) picture of a girl in her twenties with shoulder
length blonde hair.  She is wearing a black polo neck sweater, and is
holding her hair back over her right ear with her right hand.  Her left
hand is holding a cigarette, which is being lit by a Ronson lighter held by
a male hand.  (And I should point out that I do know her, nor is she a
composite of girls I knew - she is just a beautiful stranger.  Maybe a
second song is intruding on the first!).  Now that is my vision, and
probably totally unlike any image Clive James ever had, but it the image
that comes to mind, followed by the lines.  In a similar vein, I KNOW the
pub in which the hypertension kid drinks.  That one is a mixture (The
Ennismore, The Bunch of Grapes and a City pub that I can't remember the
name of).  But the image is very vivid and clear, and certain pubs will
instantly bring to mind The Early Quitter.  All these images, and many
others, come from the PA/CJ songs, and from very few other artists.  To me
that is part of the reason that they have hung around in my brain for all
these years.

A final vision.  When I am receiving terrible service in some local eatery,
I often console myself with the picture of my server coming back to the
table skewered with a flaming sword.

Well, I guess thats about all for tonight.  I am sitting here listening to
my CD and Beautiful Stranger is about to come on.  I could not possible
continue to type through that!

Stuart Reeves

==============================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:29:11 +0000
From: Stephen Payne <email address>
Subject: MV529: good news and bad news

The good news is that like many others I'm absolutely thrilled by the new
CDs.  Just to add to the general applause: what a great job has been done
on packaging - I really love the hand-written look, perfect.  I hope Pete
agrees that Steve et al have done him proud.

The bad news is that I can only play the CDs on my computer-based CD
players.  My main CD player just can't read them - and I bought/tried 3
copies so it can't be that they're faulty discs.  I have similar but less
acute problems with some other discs, but it is usually limited to not
being able to skip to particular tracks.  I presume that there's some
problem with my player, but it's not the only one  - I can't get the discs
to play on a friend's player either (and nor could that player cope with
the Magpie disc).  Has anyone noticed a similar problem with certain CDs
(is it, perhaps something to do with how densely they are recorded?).  Does
anyone have any suggestions?

While I'm here:

Many thanks to Ian C. for enlightenment and honesty re chords!

Thanks too, Mel, for confirming suspicions that you had some  scholarly
training (it was I not Jeremy who wondered, and I was a bit relieved to
hear that it hadn't seemed rude).  As a fellow academic, it's nice to see a
University education leaving its mark!  And yes, please do keep writing
about the songs.  It seems to me that all the trickiest ones to interpret
have been tackled now, but I could be forgetting some....

S

==============================================================================
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 06:43:43 PST
From: "Jones,David L" <email address>
Subject: MV530: From Monyash to my doorstep

Oh joy. Kaloo kalay!  My parents have taken delivery of
the Monyash CDs and will forward them after Xmas.
That was really rapid turnaround on the order, Steve.
I'm told the enclosed literature mentioned an NTSC 
video. Is that a done deal?  

Meanwhile the CDs will get an airing at my sister's
house, so maybe we'll pick up some new fans.

Dave Jones
Rochester NY

==============================================================================
From: cboag<email address>
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 18:35:14 +0000
Subject: MV531: ref MV511

on the subject of archiving:

Whilst I have no violent objection to this it does cross my mind to 
ask 'what's the point'? 

I hope it doesn't offend too many Voices to hear me say that Steve is
exactly on the mark - I've saved three notes out of the 500+ so far 
(I don't intend to either insult or flatter anyone by saying which 
they are other than that the dissection of the lyrics leaves me 
completely cold)

As someone who has used an e-mail system for my work for about 15 
years my advice would be to bin everything - it's rarely needed and 
if it is...there's always some sad person who's saved it and can 
forward it! 

Best wishes
Colin 
Boag------------------------------------------------------------

==============================================================================
From: cboag<email address>
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 18:45:49 +0000
Subject: MV532: ref MV512

The question was posed asking why the songs have such a fanatical 
following rather than a broad spectrum of admirers...

I suggest:

1. they are challenging and erudite - not everyone's cup of tea
2. the fanatics wouldn't want to be part of a club composed of the 
broad spectrum..
3. they take us back to carefree University times..always appealing
 

Best wishes
Colin 
Boag------------------------------------------------------------

==============================================================================
From:	"Maurice J. Lovelock" <email address>
Date:	Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:17:24 -5
Subject: MV533 Re: MV525; MV522: New (almost!) CD release

Thanks for your interest, Jeff.  I appreciate you passing any orders 
my way.  I agree its great to hear the albums again in crystal clear 
quality.   Maurice.

==============================================================================
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:27:02 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV534: Festival Recordings -- progress

We've now sent out 30 copies of the "Pete Atkin at Monyash" 2-CD set, and
18 videocassettes. All those who have ordered so far should have theirs by
Christmas. But where are the rest?

To those who haven't yet placed a firm order: there's still time! We had
reservations from MV members for some 48 CD sets and 33 videos. So
someone's holding back! Remember, I haven't considered as orders the
intentions you stated (however enthusiastically) in response to my
water-testing in MV239. I'm only despatching product to those who've
followed up the announcement in MV455 with order and cheque.

Perhaps it's all too much, with Christmas shopping and all. After all,
we're asking slightly higher prices than we estimated back in October. By
way of excuse (which I'm too fond of making) that's simply because the
anticipated demand didn't reach a level where large economies of scale
kicked in; with my own efforts being given freely to the project I needed
to ensure the fund saw a reasonable yield from the venture. The .99 is
simply a nod to tradition -- I never take the change myself anyway. Yes,
the CDs we opted to make ourselves, to order, but only on the promise of
enough orders to make it worthwhile. The video duplication though we've had
to fund in advance, so here we could be embarrassed. For what it's worth,
Pete reckons we should have charged more.

The CD covers and track listings are shown on the Website's discography
page. Click on the cover image for a high-res view:
	http://www.rwt.co.uk/padiscog.htm#monyash
And if you just wish I'd used YOUR printer for those half-tones on the
front cover, why not download a copy, for Disc 1 and Disc 2 respectively,
and print your own:
	http://www.dragonfire.net/~sbirkill/cd1frpic.gif
	http://www.dragonfire.net/~sbirkill/cd2frpic.gif

With regard to Stephen Payne's note (MV529) about CD player
incompatibilities, I must admit I haven't a clue here. Apart from being
CD-Rs, which use a different technology for the layer which holds the data
(dye rather than pressed), our festival CDs are in every way (Red Book
compliant, P/Q coded etc.) the same as commercial releases. There's nothing
should give them more affinity with computer drives than audio players. For
the record (wot!), I've tested samples of ours in:
	Sony component CD deck
	Sharp midi system (2)
	Sony portable stereo
	Philips car system (Philips 6-disc changer)
	Blaupunkt car system (Sony 10-disc changer)
	Yamaha, Panasonic, Aztech, Teac and Mitsumi CD-ROM drives
-- all without any problem except one of the Sharps occasionally hesitating
before finding the start of a track. But it does the same with regular
pressings.

However, if you'd like to return the discs for a refund, Stephen --
absolutely no problem. The same goes for any fault with anyone's discs or
videotapes.

The video contains exactly the same track listing as the CDs, but with all
the links and fluffs retained (a couple of fluffs have been more or less
successfully edited out on the CDs, though leaving a hanging verse in one
song). As stated previously, the video makes no claims to professionalism,
being shot on two camcorders (one an NTSC model) as a last-minute decision.
There's a 30-second period of black (though sound continues) at the 2h 15m
mark, as Pete goes offstage before his encores -- tape ran out on the PAL
machine while batteries had already expired on the NTSC. More fun for all.

Send for one now!

Derrick Palmer wrote (private communication), expressing confusion about
just which Pete Atkin works are currently available. Just so that everyone
is clear:

All Pete Atkin vinyl releases (The private pressings and the Fontana,
Philips and RCA albums, and the singles) have been deleted for many's the
year. The RCA CD 'Touch has a Memory' is also deleted. 'A First Folio' is
out of print.

The CD re-issue, 'Beware of the Beautiful Stranger' with 'Driving Through
Mythical America', two albums on one CD, is currently available from See
For Miles records, and can be ordered through 'high-street' retailers or by
mail order, including overseas. Maurice Lovelock (see MV522) has a small
number of copies for distribution in North America. Given modest sales, SFM
intend to reissue more of Pete's back catalogue on CD.

The Monyash Festival 2-CD set and VHS videocassette are exclusive to
Midnight Voices and patrons of the festival, and can only be obtained from
Monyash Festival at my own address, see MV455, plus later messages
concerning overseas airmail, overseas credit card facility and NTSC (North
America/Japan 525-line color system M) video availability.

To all those awaiting some kind of response from me, like Pete (welcome
back on-line!), Ian C and Ian S (thanks for the chords -- will comment
soon), Jeremy (thanks for chords index -- will publish), John (sorry for
delay in publishing annotation -- watch out this weekend) -- a typical
Steve apology. As someone noted, I DO have a day job and it's suffered
enough recently, so please be patient ...

-- S

==============================================================================
From: cjb<email address>
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:57:55 +0000
Subject: MV535 Re: MV534: Festival Recordings -- progress

>  The video duplication though
> we've had to fund in advance, so here we could be embarrassed. For
> what it's worth, Pete reckons we should have charged more.

Pete is right - this video is unique. No, it's not a super dooper 
high tech commercial product but it does achieve something most live 
video's don't - atmosphere. For anyone who was there it was a great 
evocation of a great night. For anyone not there, this is the next 
best thing. I always think that the attraction of a live performance 
is the comments between tracks and all have been preserved here. I'm 
sure the people who made a commitment will come through. Steve is 
such a genuine person, he doesn't deserve to be let down, I'm sure 
none of the voices would do that.

To add to the discussion over CD's playing on all players. One CD I 
have, from a source not a million miles from here, played once on my 
Technics CD then steadfastly refused to do so ever again. It 
did however continue to play fine on a cheapo CD and on the computer. 
As they say - go figure.
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~        
                _/\     /\_
    Cary       a    a
 Like Mary    @ 
    With  a     'C'    for cat
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(should show a cat - if not ... 
picasso eat your heart out!!)

==============================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:35:15 +0000
From: Leslie Moss <email address>
Subject: MV536: Our Lady Lowness

Thought inspired by hearing Chris Smith's lame defense of government policy
on Question Time this evening.

"Our Lady was methodical, Her teaching soon took hold.
I learned to blame the cold for being cold, the poor for being prodigal
The old for being old"

Was Clive influenced by Maggie Thatcher (milk-snatcher at that time)?

"A pleasure for the mind all right, but still you couldn't call her bright"

Or did he foresee Harriet Harman?

Leslie

==============================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:02:40 GMT
From: <email address> (Dr Jeremy Walton)
Subject: MV537: BOTB origins - CJ reveals all (well, a little bit...)

One of the pieces in CJ's "The Metropolitan Critic" is about Keith
Douglas, a poet who was killed during the 1944 Normandy invasion at the
age of twenty-four.  The main part of the article (originally published
in 1972) consists of a tour through some of Douglas's poems, together
with approving noises from the author on the way in which the poet gets
to grips with the business of "articulating sweet sounds together".  He
comments how Douglas's poetic resources could present even "the most
heavily adorned intimations of doom without sacrificing credibility" and
quotes this example:

but till the jewelled heart is dust and the gold head
disintegrates, I shall never hear the tread
of the visitor at whom I cannot guess,
the beautiful stranger, the princess.

The article is supplemented by a commentary by CJ, written in 1994, in
which he says that Douglas's "visione amora of `the beautiful stranger,
the princess' haunted me like a mantra until I eventually wrote a song
lyric - called `Beware of the Beautiful Stranger' - and laid the ghost".

Cheers,

Jeremy

==============================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:23:29 -0500
From: Chris Harris <email address>
Subject: MV538 Re MV534: Festival Recordings -- progress

Steve and expectant USA residents,
        Re the NTSC video copies. I've made a start on the conversion from
UK PAL to NTSC but doubt if they'll all be done before next year as "the
powers that be" have decided to dismantle and move my  "technical
facilities" within the company as I type, and then there's Christmas
holidays and new year and it'll probably snow and the dog's ill and what
with one thing and another they'll probably make a nice present for the
millenium :-). 
(Steve -realistically  - mid Jan. One observation, the stereo sound seems
biased to the right channel, the CD seemed the same so on the assumption
that is as it should be I won't make any attempt to change the relative
levels). It's probably best listened to in mono anyway to reduce any
background hiss to a minimum, (on the video - not the CD which is very
clear). 
------End of tech.alt.transmitter.section. ------

Moneyash CD set is excellent, a nice souvenir of the event 'though I've 
only skimmed through it once so far. 

Regards,
Chris.  

==============================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:12:10 PST
From: "Jones,David L" <email address>
Subject: MV539 RE: MV537: BOTB origins - CJ reveals all (well, a little bit...)

>Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:02:40 GMT
>From: <email address> (Dr Jeremy Walton)
>To: midnight.voices<email address>
>Subject: BOTB origins - CJ reveals all (well, a little bit...)
>
>The article is supplemented by a commentary by CJ, written in 1994, in
>which he says that Douglas's "visione amora of `the beautiful stranger,
>the princess' haunted me like a mantra until I eventually wrote a song
>lyric - called `Beware of the Beautiful Stranger' - and laid the ghost".
>

This seems to be a feature of the "Writer" syndrome, being haunted by
ideas and characters that demand to be written down.  SciFi/Fantasy
author Roger Zelazny confessed to living with various characters and
visions, often for years at a time before he was ready to lay them to rest.
One he even tried to exorcise by giving it to other writers, not being able
to find a way to write about it himself.

And if this sounds like a form of mania...well, how did CJ describe himself?

Dave Jones
Rochester NY
(who is chuckling about the "Siberian Conditions" headlines from the UK.
6 inches of snow and -2 Celsius: an ordinary day around here).

==============================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 18:25:39 -0500
From: <email address> (Stuart Reeves)
Subject: MV540: CDs

I have just reeived my Monyash CDs and have a familiar sounding problem.
Disc 1 plays perfectly on my Pioneer CD player, but disc 2 won't.  It will
however play on my computer.  Wierd

Stuart

==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:46:53 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV541 Re: MV540: CDs

In MV540 Stuart says:
>
>Disc 1 plays perfectly on my Pioneer CD player, but disc 2 won't.
>
Oh dear. You're the second with this precise symptom -- it does sound as if
we might have a problem!

My best guess at this point is that the Ricoh media which we've used for
Disc 2 could be marginal for 4x speed recording. I can imagine for instance
that if the dye is not fully modified by the laser, but just sufficiently
to be verified by the recording drive, we could have a situation, not of
random bit errors but of a disc that just doesn't play on some players.
It's not something I've ever heard of, but then I can't at present think of
an alternative hypothesis. It's unfortunate the problem doesn't show up here.

I've already sent out a replacement (fully tested) Disc 2 (though of the
same type) to Jenny, so if that still checks bad I'll have to make up a new
batch of Disc 2 using single speed recording or alternative brand media --
we can't have dissatisfied customers! Please return the disc for a swap
Stuart, and Jenny or anyone else if necessary, and I'll get a replacement
out immediately with my apologies for the hassle.

--- Steve

==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:56:45 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV542: Publicity: The Spectator

Watch out for the Christmas edition of The Spectator (UK) magazine. Should
contain Clive's article about his singing lessons(!). He was planning to
give a brief plug for Pete and the site. Due out yesterday (Saturday) I
think, but I haven't seen it yet.

--- Steve

==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:12:34 +0000
From: Helen Dinsdale <email address>
Subject: MV543 Re: MV534: Festival Recordings -- progress

Dear Steve

Sorry to be rather dilatory, a load of mail went  to a new mail reader and I
missed your announcement that the CD and video were ready. Please can you
consider this a definite order for a copy of both, a cheque will be in the
post tomorrow but it may get delayed in the last minute xmas rush, many thanks.
Best wishes for xmas and the new year to you and all MVs,

Helen. 
-- 
Helen Dinsdale
<email address>

==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:50:36 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV544: Following up MV541 re MV540: CDs

Realising (Stuart) you're in the US of A, I should have said please not to
bother returning the dodgy disc -- I'll get a new one out to you
immediately. Same goes for anyone else with a problem CD: just let me know
if you want a replacement; keep the original -- you will be able to re-use
the jewel case and labels, the disc will make a novel coaster.

Jenny I guess your first problem disc 2 is on its way back to me, so I will
have a known faulty one. If the first replacement (same technology) I've
sent you doesn't work on your player just mail me to that effect and I'll
send you another on different media.

Regards, Steve

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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