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      Web Digest, week 7 (14.10.97, MV231 - 250) begins | index | prev | next |
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      Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:13:21 +0100
      From: Leslie Moss <email address>
      Subject: MV231: Where have they all gone?
      
      Haven't had any MV messages since Friday. Am I missing something or has
      everyone dried up?
      
      See some of you on Thursday.
      
      Leslie
      
      ==============================================================================
      From: Mark Roberts <email address>
      Subject: MV232: Sighting of PA records,
      Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:20:46 +0100
      
      Hi,
      
      I was in Beano records in Croydon on Saturday and they had the 
      following PA albums
      if anyone is interested
      
      BOTBS
      Road Of Silk
      Secret Drinker
      Essential PA
      Live Libel.
      
      Prices were 6 to 10 pounds.
      
      Unfortunately I was looking for King At Nightfall.
      
      
      Regards,
      
      Mark Roberts
      
      ==============================================================================
      Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:22:56 +0100
      From: Mary <email address>
      Subject: MV233 Re: MV222: PA at Islington Folk Club
      
      > .... Pete is performing at Islington Folk Club on Thursday 16th
      > October.
      > useful if you could let me know if you are intending to come, if you
      
      John Harris and I are intending to come - I hope we'll be able to get
      in? We should be there by 8pm.
      
      Looking forward to meeting you all - and the great event of course  :-)
      
      mary
      
      ==============================================================================
      Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:39:41 +0100
      From: gerald smith <email address>
      Subject: MV234: Islington on the 16th
      
      
      In reply to Mary's mail, yes, I shall be at Islington on the 16th along
      with two fellow fans not on MV.
      
      I've never seen Pete before, so I await the great event with bated (?)
      breath !
      I just hope we can all cram in as I've heard it's quite a small venue.
      
      Whilst writing, has anyone listened to some of Pete's unpublished stuff
      which Steve put on the website ?  There really is some tremendous stuff
      there.  Check out 'A Man Who's been Around' and 'How like You This'
      especially.  Brilliant stuff.
      
      Hope to be able to put a face to some of the voices on the 16th.
      
      Is the CD out yet?
      
      
      Gerald Smith
      
      ==============================================================================
      From: Stephen Payne <email address>
      Date:          Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:23:48 +0000
      Subject:       MV235: songs for albums
      
      In the hiatus, I wonder if I might ask a question?  I guess only Pete 
      could really answer this, but anyone might have an interesting guess.
      
      I wonder how it was decided which songs would appear on which albums, 
      (and then, in which order).
      
      I'd always assumed that Pete and Clive (and anyone else) would wait 
      until they had an album's worth of songs, then go ahead, but it seems 
      from all the stuff on the web site that it didn't work like that at all.  
      To give one example, I notice that Tongue-Tied was around long before it 
      was recorded on Secret Drinker.  Maybe it was - the c. 10 songs Pete 
      liked singing most at that moment?  Maybe the albums are somehow 
      thematic?
      
      An answer to this question should explain the mystery of the unrecorded 
      songs, which from what I've heard on the web site are just as strong as 
      the recorded catalogue.  Are they all newer songs?  It seems not.  How 
      can we start a lobby for a new recording?
      
      Stephen Payne
      
      ==============================================================================
      Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:49:25 -0400 (EDT)
      From: Ian Chippett <email address>
      Subject: MV236: Shadow and the Widower
      
      The title of this song, like "The Prince of Acquitaine", comes from a French
      poem by Gerard de Nerval called "El Desdichado". The author was a 19th
      century poet famous for taking his lobster for walks on a lead. The poem
      begins, if I remember correctly, with the lines:
      
                "Je suis le Tenebreux, le Veuf, l'Inconsole,
                  Le Prince d'Acquitaine a la tour abolie"
      
      According to my son's French-Spanish dictionary, the title means "The
      Unfortunate Man" or maybe "The Unhappy Man". I wonder, in passing, why this
      poem which is not famous outside  France should have inspired Clive James
      into writing 2 great song lyrics. 
      
                                                      Ian Chippett
      
      ==============================================================================
      Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:41:34 -0400 (EDT)
      From: Rob King <email address>
      Subject: MV237: A competition to liven us up!
      
      Well, there's me feeling as if I have been in frozen animation while I help
      feed the nation's footballing hysteria, working like a rat in a treadmill,
      strolling round the streets of Rome (about time they thought about
      modernising the place, it's full of decaying old buildings), more work, lunch
      with the Ambassador (some gaff he's got, missing only the peacocks strutting
      on the lawns - wasn't a good idea to invite a couple of Socialist ministers
      along) while sitting next to Alex Ferguson, then the match - an experience
      that is up there among the memorable football night's like Gerry Armstrong's
      winner against Spain in Valencia, Ian Stewart beating West Germany in
      Belfast, Diego Maradonna's wonder goal in Mexico City, the Irish penalty
      shoot-out in Genoa, and so on; such noise, it was like massive interference
      deafening one's ears. 
      Then a jubilant flight home with the team, late but who cared until I got
      indoors at 6am - I am getting far too old to miss a whole night's sleep, be
      it for football or other physical pursuits.
      But anyway, once I picked myself up I looked forward to a nice big delivery
      of MV post. What a disappointment. This group seems to be running out of
      steam.
      So how's about a competition.
      Now we all know that CJ's lyrics are sublime, but there is the occasional
      duff line sitting there like a lump of coal among the diamonds.
      How about everyone submitting their worst line?
      
      Mine, by a mile is: "The Omega Incabloc Oyster Accutron 72 is the only
      wristwatch for a drummer - It tells true and it ain't no bummer."
      Now, I would love PA's honest reaction ...did he not always cringe when he
      had to sing the word 'bummer'. Such a dated expression. Couldn't CJ have come
      up with a better rhyme? Suggestions?
      And on the same subject, do you think CJ was being sponsored by Omega? Did he
      get a free watch? I think we should be told?
      I would like to know what line PA hates the most, and his favourite.
      
      Anyway, just trying to provoke some life....
      Rob
      
      ==============================================================================
      From: Benjamin Peterson <email address>
      Date: Fri, 17 Oct 97 15:35:25 +0100
      Subject: MV238 Re: MV237: A competition to liven us up!
      
      
      >Now we all know that CJ's lyrics are sublime, but there is the occasional 
      >duff line sitting there like a lump of coal among the diamonds.
      >How about everyone submitting their worst line?
      
      This sounds like a source of tension :)
           
      >Mine, by a mile is: "The Omega Incabloc Oyster Accutron 72 is the only 
      >wristwatch for a drummer - It tells true and it ain't no bummer."
      >Now, I would love PA's honest reaction ...did he not always cringe when he 
      >had to sing the word 'bummer'. Such a dated expression. Couldn't CJ have 
      >come up with a better rhyme? Suggestions?
      
      Oooooooh no no no no!  You're missing the point!  It's *supposed* to sound 
      vaguely feeble, dated and sad -- that's the PA ethic.  Like that line about 'the
      plush and flock soak up the brain's kerfuffle' in the Hypertension Kid.  It's 
      the kind of line that'd be spoken by the kind of guy who'd attach importance to 
      wearing the right watch when he plays the drums.  It's feeble and grim, but as 
      ever, in a *good* way.  Grim is good.
      
      Now (flame on!) *my* worstest ever CJ/PA lines would have to be:
      
      1) I See the Joker.  All of it.
      2) 'Do you think I was born in a manger?' -- I know he needed a rhyme, but honestly!
      3) 'As I powered down to zero from the grid' -- If you're gonna do a whole song 
      where you use the dame rhyme each verse, you better make sure you've got enough 
      rhymes before you start.
      
      And in order not to get a reputation for negativity, I'll just say that some of 
      my fave lines are:
      
      1) Faded Mansion. All of it.
      2) 'Grimly chasing shorts with halves of bitter / in a Mayfair club they call 
      the Early Quitter' -- Here in chicago I'm trying to recreate the ambience by 
      drinking Amstel Lite and Maker's Mark in places with names like 'Guido's 
      Tarvern', and let me tell you, it is not working.
      3) Er, almost everything else.
      
      Benjamin
      
      ==============================================================================
      Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 11:33:20 +0100
      From: S J Birkill <email address>
      Subject: MV239: My voice will be the only one
      
      Well, I'd thought it was the hush before curtain up, but the show's over
      (Whelan's) and still no clamour!
      
      Here's something to consider: I'm wondering whether I might duplicate, for
      distribution on a small scale among festival patrons and MVs only, the
      recordings I made at our Monyash Festival.
      
      We decided against a professional video shoot on the grounds of cost, with
      no guaranteed market for the end result, and instead shot on amateur
      camcorders (one was NTSC even) without full-time operators (hence mostly
      static shots), with a soundtrack compiled from DATs at the mixer and in the
      audience. Of course converting, editing the bits together in sync (and
      lip-sync), without timecode, ultimately cost us far more in time than the
      pro crew would have charged! And then the edited master is only on regular
      VHS, and second generation at that ...
      
      So I have a few options:
      
      1. The 2h 35m PAL VHS recording of Pete's set, complete, from my own
      nervous intro to Bill Blackburne's wind-up, including all 31 songs and
      guest appearances from Julie Covington and (briefly) Brent Mason and Ed
      Driscoll. I wouldn't offer any condensed options on the video -- it's had
      all the editing it's getting!
      
      2. Either (a) All the songs from Pete's set, but none of the links or
      intros, on a double CD.
         Or (b) A CD of highlights -- a selection of songs from Pete and Julie's
      set.
      
      3. (This we'll be doing in small CD-R quantities anyway, for the folk bands
      who played the Festival,) a CD of highlights from all the artists. Not yet
      edited, so haven't decided whether to include anything from Pete. Depends
      on whether I do (2) I suppose.
      
      I would charge a price in line with normal retail product, to yield a
      contribution to the Festival's fund after covering duplication costs (which
      I haven't yet investigated). I'm not looking to cover my own time -- I'd
      have done the work anyway for myself, and besides I'm way too expensive --
      you couldn't afford me (:=}). So maybe something like 10 pounds for the
      single CD, 15 for the double, and somewhere in the same region for the video.
      
      What I need is an indication, nay, commitment even, so I know whether to do
      50 or 100 videos, CDs or double CDs, or just stick at the handful of
      prototype CD-Rs and VHSs I've made here. You'll understand I can't stretch
      the latter into double figures (so don't ask for a copy!) -- it's just too
      demanding of time.
      
      I'm quite prepared to hear absolutely nothing in reply, but should the
      requests come flooding in, and should 2(b) be preferred, it would be nice
      to know which songs should definitely be included, and indeed also any
      which I should omit. I don't guarantee to take any notice either way, though.
      
      Watch out for an embryonic Julie page (soon) at (you guessed it)
      http://www.rwt.co.uk/jc.htm
      
      Cheer-Oh!
      
      -- Steve
      
      ==============================================================================
      Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 07:16:17 -0400
      From: Frances Kemmish <email address>
      Subject: MV240 Re: MV239: My voice will be the only one
      
      Dear Steve,
      
      Would you consider a North American compatible version, if there were
      sufficient demand? I don't know what the cost would be - it costs about
      $75 to get a conversion done the other way, over here (for small
      quantities)
      
      Alternatively, would you allow a North America based member to have
      copies made for distribution over here?
      
      At least CDs would be compatible !!!
      
      I assumed that the reason the list was so quiet was because you all were
      sitting home listening to your new CDs, and I am going to have to wait
      for the US Mail to bring mine - who knows how long that could take. I
      was getting jealous:-> Is the CD actually released yet?
      
      
      Fran
      
      ==============================================================================
      From:	"Maurice J. Lovelock" <email address>
      Subject: MV241 Re: MV239: My voice will be the only one
      Date:	Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:25:08 -0400
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Midnight Voices <email address>
      To: Midnight Voices :; <email address>
      Date: October 18, 1997 6:40 AM
      Subject: MV239: My voice will be the only one
      
      
      Steve:   I'll take one of everything you do, plus if the new CD is
      available,  maybe you could add that to the package.  I'll pay any shipping
      costs incurred to Canada.  Thanks for keeping Pete's name alive.  M.
      
      P.S.  The PAL videotape will be fine.  I have a PAL playback machine
      available.  M.
      
      ==============================================================================
      Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:22:12 +0100 (BST)
      Subject: MV242 Re: MV239: My voice will be the only one
      From: email address (Stephen R Bennett)
      
      Steve, 
       put me down for a copy of the Video and option 2a    ( the double CD). 
      Price sound O.K. to me, do you want a cheque for £30  put in the post? 
      -- 
      Steve Bennett 
      <email address>
      zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..COME FRIENDLY BOMBS AND FALL ON-------------------. 
                                       Sir J.B. 
      
      ==============================================================================
      Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:55:29 +0100
      From: gerald smith <email address>
      Subject: MV243: PA at Islington 16/10/97
      
      Hello Group
      
      Well, the voices have gone quiet, haven't they? Where is everybody ? Still
      down at Islington folk club from Thursday night, judging by the bodycount.
      It was a bit like the old student passtime of seeing how many people can
      fit in a phone box, mini, or the SU bar on the last night of term! The
      front row was practically sitting on Pete's lap !
      
      I arrived quite early, but strangely, the room seemed to fill from the
      back.  It reminded me of a quip Frankie Howard made when he spoke to a
      meeting of the Oxford  Union; "I'm not worried when people walk out...it's
      when they start coming towards me..!"
      
      But, in all seriousness, what a wonderful evening I had in Islington. Pete
      did a total of sixteen numbers, mostly old faves, but with a couple of
      unreleased songs, 'Search and Destroy' ( a clip of which is on the website)
      and 'Commercial Traveller', a song which Pete described as being about
      coming home.  Both had PA and CJ written all over them in terms of theme,
      lyrical content and music, and would stood side by side with all the other
      songs we know so well, had they been released.  
      
      Pete seemed relaxed and in fine form, although cuttingly self-deprecating.
      Before the gig opened with 'Laughing Boy', Pete pointed out that he did't
      do this kind of thing for a living any more, for reasons which should soon
      become clear ! Ho ho ho.., but *hardly* !! And before the second half of
      the show kicked off he said, wryly, "I have had several requests during the
      interval....but I'm going to sing anyway..!!
      
      Well let's hope that Pete decides to carry on singing.  It's not often that
      you get the chance to listen to some of your favourite music being sung by
      the original composor in a setting as intimate as your front room (despite
      the crush to get in with others queuing outside the door).
      
      And so there he was.  Just Pete and his one keyboard and acoustic guitar.
      No gimmicks, gizmos special FX, or even a microphone cable! All the songs
      were thus presented in their barest form and yet lost nothing in the
      process.  'Wristwatch For A Drummer', 'Shadow and the Widower' (which Pete
      claimed not to have performed in public before) and 'I see the Joker' still
      had all the drive and energy of the original recordings.  And to me, Pete's
      voice was just the same, lacking nothing that all the knobs and screws and
      toggles that modern production gadgets offer, might have added.
      
      As one of the midnight voices suggested, Pete brought 'Girl on the Train'
      into the 1990's with a subtle change of lyric in the first verse : 'Ten
      quid from the bank' became 'Quick trip to the bank'.  Neat.
      
      In contrast to the raw energy of 'Wristwatch', 'SATW' and 'Joker' you could
      have heard a pin drop in the packed room when Pete did 'Senior Citizens'
      and 'Faded Mansion'.  Probably in reference to the great debate about FMOTH
      which occurred on MV a few weeks ago, Pete described the song as being
      about 'everything and nothing'.  Did he mean that it's a song about people
      who have everything and those who have nothing, or, was he saying sometimes
      a song is just a song, just as Freud once said 'sometimes a cigar is just a
      cigar' ?  The whole room hung on his every word as he sang 'Senior
      Citizens', a truly beautiful love song, delivered a little more slowly than
      the album version, I thought, but with great sensitivity, and met with
      rapturous applause. 
      
      Far from detracting from the show, Pete's occasional lapse of memory, and
      indeed false start (in FMOTH) only added to the experience.  It was indeed
      a live show, warts and all.  Far better this way than those concerts which
      we've probably all been to where we may as well have stayed at home and put
      the relevant artist's CDs on the hi-fi. 'Practical Man' turned into a
      singalong when Pete dropped a line in one of the early verses and it was
      the audience itself which threw Pete when he started to play 'Beware of the
      Beautiful Stranger', such was the enthusiasm which met those opening
      chords.  'What do singers *mean* when they introduce a song by saying 'it
      goes *something* like this', mused Pete before going for take two. 'Don't
      they mean it goes *exactly* like this.?!
      (My seven year old step daughter now sings along when I play BOTBS).
      
      The show was over all too quickly, and Pete wound up with 'Perfect Moments'.
      How appropriate, for the whole experience was just so - a perfect moment
      (well, perfect 90 minutes, anyway). Here's to the next, and many more.    
      
      Roll on CD re-releases, videos and the long-overdue seventh album.
      
      (The whole set list was as follows : Laughing Boy, Girl on the Train,
      Between Us..., Search and Destroy, Sessionman's Blues, Stranger in Town,
      Wristwatch..., Practical Man, Thief in the Night, Senior Citizens,
      Commercial Traveller, I see The Joker, Faded Mansion..., Beware OTBS,
      Shadow ATW, Perfect Moments.)
      
      Gerry Smith
      
      ==============================================================================
      From: Stephen Payne <email address>
      Date:          Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:42:46 +0000
      Subject:       MV244 Re: MV239: My voice will be the only one
      
      Wasn't sure whether to reply to Steve or the group on this one.
      
      My view is that
      a) I'd definitely want to purchase a CD of Pete's set.  I'd prefer 
      non-edited to highlights, but I'd buy either.  (In fact I'd happily 
      commit to 3 copies.)
      b) I wouldn't be as keen on a video, but would probably buy it if there 
      was no CD.
      
      If the CD must be highlights, my vote for songs goes first to any that 
      have not been recorded - I remember Search and Destroy and Canoe - or 
      that have only been recorded by Julie but were performed by Pete - 
      Beautiful Changes   -  there may have been others in both categories, 
      second for those that are maximally different from the recorded versions 
      (e.g the wristwatch for a drummer).
      
      ==============================================================================
      Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:50:26 PDT
      From: "Jones,David L" <email address>
      Subject: MV245 RE: MV239: My voice will be the only one
      
      I'd go for the double CD, though I itch to see the video.  The CD would have
      to be snailed to the US, of course, P&P extra.
      
      Dave Jones
      Rochester NY
      
      ==============================================================================
      From: Cary <email address>
      Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 23:53:43 +0000
      Subject: MV246 Re: MV239: My voice will be the only one
      
      Steve,
      
      Re all and any Cd's - yes please
                            Video's - YES PLEASE
                             and the whole shooting match - yes please!!
      Commitment hereby declared.
      
      Re. Lyrics, another category to add .... misheard lyrics!!
      Pete is one of the clearest enu.... ennun ...... enonci ... 
      sounding singers in the business but every so often ...
      
      From the Hypertension Kid - 'Casper the dreadful memories.'
      From  The Joker - 'and then from Rantzen industries.'
      
      Checked out pa.htm lyric ..... Casper the ghost and Esther Rantzen 
      are NOT mentioned.
      
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~        
                      _/\     /\_
          Cary       a    a
       Like Mary    @ 
          With  a     'C'    for cat
       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      (should show a cat - if not ... 
      picasso eat your heart out!!)
      
      ==============================================================================
      From: Colin Boag <email address>
      Date: Sun, 19 Oct 97 11:03:55 +0000
      Subject: MV247: fewer notes...
      
      There have been a number of comments about the decrease in the 
      number of notes which subscribers are writing. Surely this decline 
      isn't surprising?
      
      Isn't it the fact that we are a disparate bunch of people with very
      little in common other than our mutual liking for a particular 
      artiste? In addition, there is a limit to just how much admiration
      we can each express for PA before it becomes repetitive / cloying /
      etc...
      
      Whilst I'm on my soapbox I was always uneasy about the correspondence   
      which sought to find a way in which devotees could identify each 
      other at PA gigs. The question which kept coming to mind was 'why 
      would we want to?' 
      
      If there are, say, 100 people on the list, isn't it simply the case
      that any one of us will probably find 5% of them deeply irritating, 
      80% neutral to invisible, 10% quite pleasant and then, if we are 
      lucky, 5% who could become potential friends! Of that final 5%, 
      goodness knows how slim the chances are that any one of us would
      strike a genuine, lasting friendship with someone else on the list. 
      This isn't cynical, it's just the way the world seems to work!
      
      I really hope that the renewed interest in PA continues/grows, but 
      if it does, it will be down to new people discovering the excellence
      of the music - not us wrinklies telling each other what we already
      know! 
      
      Steve has done an amzing job of getting the ball rolling but I 
      suspect that long-term the determining factor will be just how much
      PA feels he wants/needs/can bear to perform/tour/record. That's a 
      deeply personal thing which surely none of the 'Voices' will (or 
      would want to influence).
      
      I'll (obviously) be at Winchester on the 29th but since I will be 
      wearing no identification you'll have to search me out - if you 
      have the inclination! Seriously though, I hope a number of you come
      to what I'm sure will be an excellent evening.   
      
      Best wishes
      Colin 
      Boag------------------------------------------------------------
      
      ==============================================================================
      Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:24:03 +0100
      From: Leslie Moss <email address>
      Subject: MV248 Re: MV239: My voice will be the only one
      
      Steve, count me in for:
      
      1. Double CD of Pete's Monyash set (I assume that you're including Julie's
      songs too)
      
      2. Video (I don't understand the difference between PAL VHS and any other
      VHS but assume that what you have in mind is a video that is playable on UK
      machines)
      
      Say the word and a cheque'll be in the post.
      
      To Gerald: many thanks for the review of the Islington gig. I was two hours
      from attending then a work commitment delayed me. It sounds as though Pete
      was in great form and your piece gave a real sense of being there.
      
      Anyone know when he's next going to be appearing in the London area?
      
      To Steve; thanks for starting the Julie site. I assume you're aware that
      you're missing a reference to Rock Follies.
      
      Re favourite and unfavourite lyrics. Favourite: I find the whole of Thirty
      Year Man incredibly evocative, especially the line about "it isn't my hands
      that brings them in, it's a little girl just starting to begin, it's her
      they're turning out to hear, and it's my bent over back she's standing
      near". Unfavourite: No real hate lines, but Touch has a memory is a bit
      insipid both lyrically and musically.
      
      To Colin and all. I'd like to disagree about the pointlessness of trying to
      make contact between ourselves. Yes, the only thing we've got in common is
      an unabashed admiration for a little-known artist, but that very fact
      suggests some common threads/likes/dislikes/emotional responses to music
      that I for one would be very happy to explore. (Except I guess for the 5% of
      you that I am going to irritate beyond measure!). It would seem a bit sad to
      attend a PA gig knowing that other Voices were there yet go home without
      having identified each other. How about something not too attention-drawing
      like a particular coloured tie/shirt/sweater/dress that would at least
      encourage  a "are you by any chance a Midight Voice" conversation during the
      interval. I do agree though that unless Pete continues to perform,
      preferably with new material, interest is bound to dry up after a while in
      communicating between ourselves.
      
      Happy listening.
      
      Leslie
      
      ==============================================================================
      Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:50:21 -0400 (EDT)
      From: Richard Gibson <email address>
      Subject: MV249 Re: MV239: My voice will be the only one
      
      I am delighted to hear that we have the prospect of obtaining current
      recordings of Pete and of Julie.
      
      My vote is for 2(a)
      although I would be satisfied with 2(b).
      
      I intend to start to spread the word by giving Pete's discs to friends and to
      find a way into the Boston radio stations, consequently, put me down for
      several, probably five.
      
      Regards
      Richard
      
      ==============================================================================
      Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:44:54 +1300
      From: Ramsey Margolis <email address>
      Subject: MV250 Re: MV239: My voice will be the only one
      
      Put me down for a CD -- I'll be happy with whatever comes up most
      popular.  Or a DAT.
      
      Ramsey
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      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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      their works and collaborators on stage, TV, disc and in print.
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      Midnight Voices, the Pete Atkin and Julie Covington Websites are operated and maintained by Steve Birkill