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Web Digest week 22 (25.01.98, MV640 - 660) begins | index | prev | next |
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From: Cary <email address>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:45:15 +0000
Subject: MV640 Re: MV638: Radio Interview
Gerald pleaded,
>What should I do?
DON'T PANIC ....... count to ten - then panic.
(then check back after Steve's explanation - I'm on my way)
Been there, done that - come back ..... it's shrunk again Steve!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ROCK FOLLIES - The Classic 1970's TV Drama starring
Julie Covington, Charlotte Cornwell and Rula Lenska.
Online at:- http://members.xoom.com/Follies
Pictures,sounds and much more (unofficial site)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:03:43 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV641 Re: MV640; MV638: Radio Interview
>
>Gerald pleaded,
>>What should I do?
>
>DON'T PANIC ....... count to ten - then panic.
>
>(then check back after Steve's explanation - I'm on my way)
>
>Been there, done that - come back ..... it's shrunk again Steve!!
>
But did we repanic too soon? I was still wrangling it with GeoCities some
time after posting MV639, and eventually got the so-and-so to accept, and
admit it had accepted every last byte, around 1730 local. It's still
showing 1189452 bytes at 1804, so I think we've cracked it. I'm outa here ...
Steve
==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:30:54 +0000
From: Leslie Moss <email address>
Subject: MV642 Re: MV637: Steve Wright Interview in RA
Steve
Tried downloading the ra file but it keep sticking at 150K out of the 1161K
reported.
Any chance of e-mailing the file to me?
Leslie
==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:52:45 +0000
From: Gerald Smith <email address>
Subject: MV643: Downloaded at last!!
I've finally managed to download ALL of the interview!! I tried three
times via my UKOnline connection, but it didn't seem able to get past about
335K (of the 1.2MB), although my machine still seemed under the impression
download was in progress. In desperation, I tried it via AOL; the sole
reason I keep my account with this, the 'Daily Sport' of ISPs, is that they
really are quite fast (my modem connects at 38400, even tho' despite being
a 33600).
Enjoyed the interview, albeit a little 'madcap'. Just one thing; why does
Pete go for 'Master of the Revels' for PR/publicity. It's a fine and jolly
song indeed, but surely not one of his best.
Thanks to Steve for getting it on the web.
Gerry Smith
==============================================================================
From: IChippett <email address>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:18:03 EST
Subject: MV644: Road of Silk
"And still his dreaming eyes are full of sails"
A kid who's been to the seaside and is now asleep.
"The tree-house leaves the peach-tree like a bird"
He's built himself a treehouse and is now asleep.
"In time the swelling bark takes in the nails"
Well, it would, wouldn't it? And he's just finished a tree house naturally
using nails
"Of those adventures, nothing more is heard."
Because he's asleep.
"Easy
Let him sleep now"
What did I tell you?
"Not a word."
Or you'll wake him up.
"He's losing what he hardly knew was there"
He's asleep and he's too young to realise what's happening to him
"The lead dragoons pack up and quit the tray"
Kids used to play with lead soldiers before the advent of Saturnism though
I agree they never put them away afterwards!
"The early snowfalls lift into the air"
Not too sure about this one, I admit
"The Road of Silk rolls backward from Cathay"
Even less so about this one but anyway
"Easy
Let him sleep now
Come away"
See above after Chorus One
"His fondest memories have left their mark
For just so long as lipstick on a glass"
This could be about anyone, a kid or an adult
"The highway scatters jewellery through the dark
The circus leaves a circle on the grass"
A kid half-sleeping in the back of a car on the motorway on the way home
from a day with Billy Smart or Bertram Mills?
"Easy
Let him sleep now
Let it pass"
I rest my case.
==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:00:38 GMT
From: <email address> (Dr Jeremy Walton. Tel: <phone number>)
Subject: MV645 Re: MV636: The Beautiful Changes
Hi Leslie,
>> Someone commented on the relative lack of middle eights in Pete's songs,
(raises hand) I think that must have been me.
>> and
>> The Beautiful Changes is a prime example of that. I find this song always
>> reminds me musically of The Eagles' song "The Last Resort" from the Hotel
>> Calaifornia album, which also has this quality of building up by repetition
>> (I'm with Cary insofar as the song definitely works better on album than it
>> did with just a voice and guitar, much as it was a pleasure to hear the
song
>> at Monyash). In fact, the entire Hotel California album is full of songs
>> without middle eights, including the title song.
Good point, although Hotel California is "raised to classic status" (it
says here) by the blistering guitar duet at the end (how many people do
you know that can listen to it without reaching for the nearest air
guitar?). Without it, it would be just another piece of white man's
pseudo-reggae - indeed, some would say that the duet's the only good
thing about the song...
Now, Pete's had some pretty impressive musicians working on his songs,
but I don't think any of us listen to them in order to check out their
chops (Spedding's solo on "Where have they all gone?" is the only
possible exception that I can recall). They're held firmly in check as
backing for the song and the words. Indeed, in some cases
("Frangipanni" being my favourite) the playing sounds (whisper it)
pretty awful really.
So I don't think there's anything other than the singer and the song to
engage your attention in the case of PA. And if the song doesn't have a
middle eight - well, it might sound like it's going on a bit.
Actually (and here we come to the root of my problem with all this -
it's my problem) the thing is that *I* couldn't imagine myself being
able to get away with doing a song like BOTBS in public without worrying
about whether I was straining the patience of my listeners. The fact
that PA is able to do it so superbly makes you realise (all over again)
that this kind of thing is much harder than he makes it look.
Cheers,
Jeremy
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| Jeremy Walton <email address> |
| The Numerical Algorithms Group Ltd, Oxford, UK Tel: <phone number> |
| Fax: <fax number> |
| IRIS Explorer Center URL: http://www.nag.co.uk/Welcome_IEC.html |
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==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:27:14 +0000
From: Roy Brown <email address>
Subject: MV646 Re: MV644: Road of Silk
In article <email address>,
Midnight Voices <email address> writes
>From: IChippett <email address>
>Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:18:03 EST
>To: midnight.voices<email address>
>Subject: Road of Silk
>
<Snip analysis leading to 'child').
>
>I rest my case.
>
I'm back to those lead soldiers. Song, present tense, '70's.
I think lead soldiers were out of circulation by then.
And 'dragoons' is older - pre WW1, even.
'Old man dying'.
--
Roy Brown Phone : <phone number> Fax : <fax number>
Affirm Ltd Email : <email address>
The Great Barn, Mill St 'Have nothing on your systems that you do not
TEWKESBURY GL20 5SB (UK) know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful.'
==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:32:07 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV647: Songs: Pete answers
Pete Atkin says:
It's most gratifying that Leslie has picked up on the effect of the 'extra
lines' at the end of songs. Not our invention, I'm afraid. It's a
time-honoured technique and a trick we picked up from those classic
Broadway songwriters, most notably Rodgers and Hart (try 'It Never Entered
My Mind', for example, from the Ella Fitzgerald R&H Songbook).
The structure of the songs (middle 8 or no middle eight) was, I have to
say, mainly down to Clive, at least in the first instance. Sometimes it
would just feel wrong to break up the line through a song or to impose a
false shape on the idea. Sometimes, though, I did conjure up a middle
eight where Clive hadn't written one. You can sometimes spot these, I
think, from the fact that the verse structure of the middle bit it the same
as the other verses. I'll give you Payday Evening as a example and leave
the MVs to speculate on any others (much more fun for me!).
And to answer Gerry, Master Of The Revels was specifically Steve W's
choice. It was (understandably) the only track he actually remembered
from back then. Besides, what we'd hope the interview might do would be
to interest a few new listeners (as well as alert some of the previously
converted to our revival), and that track has a pretty good record of doing
that in the past, even if it isn't exactly representative of a lot of the
rest.
==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:06:01 GMT
From: Graeme Lindsay <email address>
Subject: MV648: Pete Aitkin (sic) on 3-2-1
Flicking through the various obscure Satellite channels last Saturday night
I came across 3-2-1. Yes it was that one. Unfortunately I had missed PA's
performance, but the contestant were obviously PA fans as they hung on to
his clue through thick and thin (those of you who remember 3-2-1 will
understand what I'm going on about and will not need a description of Ted
Roger's jacket to appreciate how sartorially offensive it was). By
coincidence it turned out to be the star prize, a Ford Fiesta for those
preparing a PA trivia quiz.
So the footage of PA on 3-2-1 does exist, whether PA would be pleased is
open to debate, and hopefully we'll see it on the Web page in the near
future, minus Ted Rogers jacket of course.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Graeme Lindsay
<postal address>
Tel: <phone number>
Fax: <fax number>
Email: <email address>
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
==============================================================================
From: Dave Jones <email address>
Subject: MV649 RE: MV646; MV644: Road of Silk
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:56:51 -0500
For me the song's images are those of a life, or memories,
evaporating. With "Senior Citizens" being close by on the
record I've always automatically homed in on the 'old man'
image. I can't really see the 'child' aspect myself.
The 'dying' part is not necessary. Anybody who watched
their grandfather doze away his old age can identify with
the song.
Some of the images are cinematic, which is standard
for Clive (the snowfall and the tree house). I get an echo
of "Where are the snows of yesteryear ?" from the snowfall
line as well. Snow figures large in nostalgia, especially
if, as in the UK (or Australia!) it's relatively uncommon.
The highway and the jewels - that's the "streetlights from
an airliner" image we saw in "Prince of Aquitaine".
As for the "Road of Silk", the album cover shows a tapestry
and credits the British Museum as the source (IIRC).
I think of the tapestry of a life being rolled up. The 'Silk
Road' was a route much travelled by adventurers - tales of
these were the raw material of stories you would read in your
youth. Now your memories fade, the road rolls away from you.
The circus leaving a circle on the grass isn't just a memory,
its another image of a memory disappearing. The circus is
here and then it's gone. Your memory fades like the circle
left in the grass. Likewise the lipstick on the glass. These
are the memories of an adult, but they're going the same way
as the memories of childhood.
Er, that's it.
Dave Jones
"I sound like FM Radio" - Woody Allen, "Annie Hall"
==============================================================================
From: IChippett <email address>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:24:50 EST
Subject: MV650: The Beautiful Changes
Like Stephen and one or two other Voices, I had never heard this song before I
got the live C.D. and I must say I find it totally baffling. Other songs have
a similar effect but something still comes across as with the beautiful
"History and Geography." However, I just don't know where to start with this
one and having apparently spent the last twenty odd years totally
misunderstanding "The Road of Silk" I would appreciate it if some kind Voices
could help with an explanation.
==============================================================================
From: Dave Jones <email address>
Subject: MV651 RE: MV650: The Beautiful Changes
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:45:45 -0500
> From: IChippett <email address>
> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:24:50 EST
> To: midnight.voices<email address>
> Subject: The Beautiful Changes
>
> having apparently spent the last twenty odd years totally
> misunderstanding "The Road of Silk" I would appreciate it if some kind
Voices
> could help with an explanation.
>
I wouldn't lose any sleep over getting the 'right' explanation. Any song
(assuming some kind of artistic intent) is a transmission from the artist(s)
to the listener. Whatever feelings and images it conjures up for you are
as meaningful as the ones it conjures up for me. In the end its a matter
of whether you enjoyed the song, not whether you understood it (this from
an old "Yes" fan).
Of course, as fully paid up members of species Homo Nosipaca we like
to go exploring in the canyons of the mind, hence all the deconstruction
of Clive's lyrics. If this helps you feel more in tune with his feelings
when he wrote them, fine. If not and the song still works for you, that's
fine too. And if the song doesn't speak to you, well, we're not exactly
cramming for Finals here.
We move on to something else.
Pete's musical interpretation in "Road of Silk" seems fairly
upbeat and optimistic to me. It speaks of a life well-lived, now fading in
twilight. Nothing funereal about it. But that's just my hearing....
I haven't yet received the Monyash CD (sent surface mail at New Year, so
say mid-Feb for delivery) so I am in no position to speak of TBC. I'm looking
forward to having a crack at it.
Dave Jones
Wishing the snowfall would lift into the air in Rochester, NY
==============================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:02:01 +0000
From: Christine Guilfoyle <email address>
Subject: MV652 Re: MV648: Pete Aitkin (sic) on 3-2-1
In message <email address>,
Midnight Voices <email address> writes
>Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:06:01 GMT
>From: Graeme Lindsay <email address>
>Subject: Pete Aitkin (sic) on 3-2-1
>To: Midnight voices <email address>
>
>
>Flicking through the various obscure Satellite channels last Saturday night
>I came across 3-2-1. Yes it was that one. Unfortunately I had missed PA's
>performance, but the contestant were obviously PA fans as they hung on to
>his clue through thick and thin (those of you who remember 3-2-1 will
>understand what I'm going on about and will not need a description of Ted
>Roger's jacket to appreciate how sartorially offensive it was). By
>coincidence it turned out to be the star prize, a Ford Fiesta for those
>preparing a PA trivia quiz.
>
>So the footage of PA on 3-2-1 does exist, whether PA would be pleased is
>open to debate, and hopefully we'll see it on the Web page in the near
>future, minus Ted Rogers jacket of course.
>
-- Glad to have third-party evidence of this (bizarre) sighting after all
these
years. I know that Pete confessed to it, but we were still doubting our
sanity...
Christine and Mike
==============================================================================
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:41:35 +0100
From: Roger Barnett <email address>
Organization: Real Objects Ltd
Subject: MV653 Re: MV628: Pete's back
In article: <email address>
midnight.voices<email address> writes:
>
> MV512 - The 'rather loud rock outfit' who were supporting me at the Arts,
> Cambridge, were Isotope, featuring Gary Moore and Hugh Hopper (ex-Soft
> Machine). Musical compatibility (or, to put it another way, consideration
> of the audience) rarely came (comes?) into the choice of support act. In
> this case, they were willing to let me and my guys borrow their gear for
> free if they got to play support.
I remember going to see Isotope at St. Andrews in the mid-70s - they must
have been good as I went out and bought their LP, which was not something
you did lightly as a student, even back then (and, yes, I still have the
album).
If I remember correctly they were supported by Mike Heron (this would have
been post Incredible String Band) who was something of a regular at St. A.
at that time.
--
Roger Barnett
==============================================================================
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:14:50 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV654: Circle on the Grass; Q Review
Essential lyric trivia dept.:
Pete reveals the source of that particular circle: "the final image of
Charlie Chaplin's 'The Circus', which we'd not long since seen a screening
of."
And ...
'Q' (Ian Cranna) has reviewed the SFM CD!
"Highbrow lyrical entertainment by a young Clive James with music by Atkin
"When James was at Cambridge University in the '60s, he became lyricist for
singer-songwriter Pete Atkin. Both had broad interests (revue, Tin Pan
Alley, jazz) and together they wrote subtle, impressively crafted songs
(ranging from caustic to melancholy) about love and society, displaying an
unexpected poetic sensibility amid the verbal dexterity and cynical wit.
The first LP, 1970's BOTBS sometimes smacks of aren't-I-clever smugness and
is a tad uncomfortable when moving beyond acoustic guitar to strings,
clarinets and double bass, but the brilliant title track is worth the money
alone. The second, from 1971, is more sophisticated, dealing in weightier
ideas (death, tha way men treat each other, power, glamour) in more wordy
fashion but with less humour and tunefulness. *** " (that's three stars!).
-- S
==============================================================================
From: IChippett<email address>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:20:44 EST
Subject: MV655 Re : MV651 RE: MV650: The Beautiful Changes
I think Dave Jones fell victim to my syntax in my last message. The song I
want some help with is "The Beautiful Changes" which goes straight over my
head. If it were by someone other than Clive James, I would not give it a
second thought
but he always avoided pointless mystification in his other works. What, for
example, is "a clover leaf crossing now ties in a ring?" The verse seems to
lack a verb unless "ties" is one and, if it is, then what is being tied? What
do the other Voices feel (if anything)?
Oh, and Dave, the C.D.s are brilliant. But is it true that Clive James wrote
the words AND music for "The Paper Wing song?" If so, chapeau!
==============================================================================
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 16:51:58 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV656 Re: MV655; MV651; MV650: The Beautiful Changes
Ian says:
>What, for
>example, is "a clover leaf crossing now ties in a ring?" The verse seems to
>lack a verb unless "ties" is one and, if it is, then what is being tied? What
>do the other Voices feel (if anything)?
>
The simple interpretation, which Pete supports, is a statement: "The
cloverleaf crossing now ties (does tie itself) in a ring", a comparison of
highway intersections: what (there) was a beautiful and complex pattern is
customarily rendered (here?) as just a circle. But I suspect there was
really more to it in Clive's mind than that ...
The title poem of Richard Wibur's collection (for the curious) goes:
One wading a Fall meadow finds on all sides
The Queen Anne's Lace lying like lilies
On water; it glides
So from the walker, it turns
Dry grass to a lake, as the slightest shade of you
Valleys my mind in fabulous blue Lucernes
The beautiful changes as a forest is changed
By a chameleon's tuning his skin to it;
As a mantis, arranged
On a green leaf, grows
Into it, makes the leaf leafier, and proves
Any greenness is deeper than anyone knows.
Your hands hold roses always in a way that says
They are not only yours; the beautiful changes
In such kind ways,
Wishing ever to sunder
Things and things' selves for a second finding, to lose
For a moment all that it touches back to wonder.
>
>But is it true that Clive James wrote
>the words AND music for "The Paper Wing song?" If so, chapeau!
>
The WTML cover,
http://www.dragonfire.net/~sbirkill/wtml.gif
says "words & music -- James". Pete once suggested that Clive may have
hummed the tune to Daryl Runswick, who interpreted it as what we know,
though in his handwritten songlists for the Festival CDs,
http://www.dragonfire.net/~sbirkill/festcd.gif
he doesn't credit Clive. But I think that was merely an oversight. I like
it too.
-- Steve
==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 00:37:58 -0500
From: Frances Kemmish <email address>
Subject: MV657: Thank you Steve
Steve,
I received my video and CDs a couple of days ago. They arrived safe and
sound, except for a small crack in one CD case, which, fortunately did
not cause any damage to the CD. I am listening to them as I type this.
Thank you once again for all your hard work in arranging the CD
production and the video. I am especially grateful that you were able to
supply a NSTC video.
Watching the video shows me that I am not the only person carrying a
little more weight than I had in the seventies.
Fran
==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 09:32:25 GMT
From: <email address> (Michael J. Cross)
Subject: MV658 Re: MV655 Re : MV651 RE: MV650: The Beautiful Changes
In message <email address> Midnight Voices writes:
} From: IChippett<email address>
}
} I think Dave Jones fell victim to my syntax in my last message. The song I
} want some help with is "The Beautiful Changes" which goes straight over my
} head. If it were by someone other than Clive James, I would not give it a
} second thought
} but he always avoided pointless mystification in his other works. What, for
} example, is "a clover leaf crossing now ties in a ring?" The verse seems to
} lack a verb unless "ties" is one and, if it is, then what is being tied?
What
} do the other Voices feel (if anything)?
The green-covered place that I went to in spring
With a notebook and what cigarettes I could bring
The cloverleaf crossing now ties in a ring
And how the beautiful changes
I think this verse is about someone revisiting a 'green-covered place'
only to find that it is now surrounded by a motorway intersection
'cloverleaf', and has thus been corrupted.
Each verse seems to describe a situation where something, or someone,
beautiful dies, changes for the worse, or is corrupted.
all the best,
--
Michael J. Cross BSFA Magazine Index at http://www.mjckeh.demon.co.uk
"Beware of the Beautiful Stranger/Driving Through Mythical America"
by Pete Atkin & Clive James, CD reissue 11/97 on See For Miles
For more info on all PA/CJ releases, see http://www.rwt.co.uk/pa.htm
==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 14:41:57 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV659 Re: MV658; MV655; MV651; MV650: The Beautiful Changes
Thank you Mike!
>
>I think this verse is about someone revisiting a 'green-covered place'
>only to find that it is now surrounded by a motorway intersection
>'cloverleaf', and has thus been corrupted.
>
Yes, I'd been misparsing it all these years -- of course, the green-covered
place is the object, the crossing the subject.
-- Steve
==============================================================================
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 14:46:46 +0000
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV660: Gig List
New to "Smash Flops":
A list of all Pete's gigs, 1970 through 1977, at
http://www.rwt.co.uk/pagiglst.htm
Lyric to "The Architect" (or "The Architect of the Towers"), the song Pete
featured on his "Up Sunday" appearance in the '70s, at
http://www.rwt.co.uk/i63.htm
Thanks for this to Graham Stibbs.
-- Steve
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