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Thread: Seven new song sheets (Read 32491 times) |
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Gerry Smith
MV Fixture
Posts: 222
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #1: 20.02.11 at 13:32 » |
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Wonderful. This will keep me busy for a while.
Just had a quick look at Lady of a Day. Has my ear really let me down so badly all this time or has Pete simplified the second (and recurring) bars a bit? Pete has put the chords F to Eb in mm1-2. I have always played this as F followed by F11 (voiced at the piano F, G, Bb, Eb, F). F to Eb works but sounds a bit thin in my opinion.
Gerry
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=1#1  |
Out playing the saxes
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S J Birkill
MV Administrator
just a sensible reserve
Posts: 867
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #2: 20.02.11 at 14:22 » |
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on 20.02.11 at 13:32, Gerry Smith wrote:Wonderful. This will keep me busy for a while.
Just had a quick look at Lady of a Day. Has my ear really let me down so badly all this time or has Pete simplified the second (and recurring) bars a bit? Pete has put the chords F to Eb in mm1-2. I have always played this as F followed by F11 (voiced at the piano F, G, Bb, Eb, F). F to Eb works but sounds a bit thin in my opinion.
Gerry |
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Hi Gerry
Looking at the song's chord transcription on the site, I see I've credited it to you -- unfairly it seems, for in fact what I eventually posted was a hybrid of yours with Pete's version, sent in response to your proposal.
I see you originally (September 1997) suggested:
Quote:INTRO : G/// F9/G ///Cm6/G / G/// F9/G Cm6/G / G///
OR : G...F9/G ///F7+9/G(no root) / etc.....G///
Perhaps PA could offer some guidance here. I've worked this out at the
piano, so I don't have a guitarist's perspective. At the piano, the actual
notes of my chords in the first two bars are :
RH | G / G G
BCB G D| F / F Eb
G / / /| C / C C
D / / /| A / A A
LH G | G G G
Anyway, I think I've got the rest of the song sussed. Here goes.
G F9/G
So goodbye my lady of a day
EbMaj7
Now let your step be long
EbMaj7/F G G///
And now your laugh be gay
C# B Eb
It's only right that every thing went wrong
F G G/// F9/G Cm6/G
It couldn't happen any other way.
G F9/G EbMaj7
A thousand miles east the lovers say
EbMaj7/F G G///
It's written in the sky in stars that lead away
C# B Eb
It could't happen to a nicer guy
F G G
A nicer girl, my lady of a day.
B Eb
Through screens of memory you lead me
F F9(F/G)
Smile on the screen behind and then
G
The screen behind the screen behind..
Am7 D7
But nothing alters what has been
EbMaj7 EbMaj7(+9)/F
Nor do my eyes deceive me
G F9/G
So goodbye my lady of a night
EbMaj7 EbMaj7/F G
Now let your head be clear and now your smile bright
C# B Eb Eb
As hour by day by week by month by year
B Am7 C#
You dim but never wholly disappear
Eb F Eb Eb9/F
On the curving path away from my delight.
**
OUTRO; G...G...F9/G...Cm6/G, G F9/G/// Cm6/G G. |
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Pete responded with
Quote:I've never ever played Lady Of A Day on the guitar anyway, so I've never
thought about the chords from a guitarist's point of view. Actually,
there's a simple (crude) scheme to harmonies of this one. In writing it I
(uniquely, I think) set myself a sort of puzzle: first, could I
(perversely) write a song without using either the IV or V chords? (If
you're in, say, E, that means no A and no B7, in C no F and no G7, etc.)
I think I'd also just read somewhere about the whole-note scale - 2
semitones between each step: C-D-E-F#-G#-Bb-C or Db-Eb-F-G-A-B-Db (there
are only the two possibilities) - which has a strange, unresolved sort of
feel to it that seemed sort of appropriate to this song. Cut to the chase.
The root harmonies of the song are based exclusively on a whole-note
scale. The actual melody and the notes within the chords use any notes at
all, but the basic chords are always and only on those roots. (Thus you'll
see that the D7 (C7 in my key) in the middle eight is definitely wrong.)
The complexities of the chords - major sevenths and whatnot - derive simply
from the way the melody sits on top of the chords. For that reason, I
think the easiest way to play it - certainly on guitar - would be to use
mostly the simplest root chords and sing over the top of them, leaving the
rest of the chords to be implied.
(I notice that Gerald has once again transcribed the song 2 semitones
higher than I actually do it. Could he have a problem with the speed of
his turntable?)
I'll do it this way again. Trying to link chords to words in e-mail
formatting leads to all kinds of possible confusions. (In WP I use a
table format which gives a reasonable best-of-both-worlds version.)
||: F /// | Eb /// | Db /// | Db / Eb / |
| F /// | F /// | B7 /// | A9 /// |
| Db /// | Eb /// | F /// | F /// :||
| A /// | Db /// | G / Eb / | F /// | F /// |
| Ebmaj7 /// | A7 /// | Dbmaj7 /// | Dbmaj7 // Eb |
| F /// | Eb /// | Db /// | Db / Eb / |
| F /// | F /// | B7 /// | A9 /// |
| Db /// | Db /// | A7 /// | G9 /// |
| B /// | B /// | Db /// | Eb /// |
| Dbmaj7 /// | Dbmaj7 / Eb6 / | F /// | F /// ||
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Your reply to me, which I hope you (Gerry) don't mind me quoting, was
Quote:It was fascinating to see PA's remarks about my arrangement.
Essentially, I think in all but two chords in the m8, his chords are the
same as mine except a tone lower. I don't actually have a problem with the
turntable speed, it's just that all of these arrangements I've made of his
songs are not necessarily in the original key, mostly having been done frpm
memory, sat in front of an old honky-tonk with a million dumb keys in the
rec room at Uni residences. Any other songs I send down I will endeavour to
transpose back to the original.
What a revolutionary concept it was to attempt to write a song in a popular
idiom without using the usual dominant relationships. Bet Status Quo would
have a few problems! Of course, now I can see that PA has used the
whole-tone scale starting on C#(or Db) and so, yes two of my chords in the
m8 are wrong for that reason. In the revised version below, they have been
ammended.
Although Pete's chords are essentially the same as the transcription I sent
down, it is my humble opinion that perhaps he has over simplified the chord
structure. The original recording has a delicate, yearning, soft beauty
about it which I think is brought about by a combination of the
arrangement/orchestration itself, together with, as Pete Suggests, the way
the melody fits over the underlying harmony. It is this whole feel which I
attempted portray in my choice of chords. Putting my head on the block
here, I'm not sure if PA has done justice to his own beautiful song !!!!
PA is right about the unresolved feeling which the whole tone scale
produces. I think this is a trait with a lot of his stuff, for instance I
believe he uses the tritone relationship quite a bit (the change from F to B
in Rain Wheels springs to mind, as an example). A tritone has a restless
quality about it which screams out to be resolved.
Anyway, here is my revamped transcription, using the simplified chords as
suggested by PA and incorporating corrections to the two errors in the m8.
I've left out the intro and outro as, basically, they take the same form as
the first line of the verse. |
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...and what followed was what I uploaded to the Chords page. Do you think I should change its attribution?
This level of interest in the songs and their construction was also reflected in the MV posts of the time. Anyone new here should make a point of checking out the Midnight Voices Year 1 Archive.
Steve
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=2#2 |
Stephen J Birkill
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Gerry Smith
MV Fixture
Posts: 222
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #3: 20.02.11 at 15:11 » |
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Goodness, thanks for dredging that one up, Steve. My mind is still making the quantum leap but really,the matter of attribution doesn't matter! So please do as you see fit.
For the benefit of anyone who wants to compare the (my?) 1997 transcription with Pete's official one of today, I did it a tone higher than the original. No particular reason other than that's how I chose to do it. The Eb chord in m2, as I said above, is a bit weak in my opinion, a bit of a compromise. I prefer to think of it as F11 (ie F incorprating the 7th, 9th and llth with a further F at the top of the chord) but to simplify matters slightly it could be construed as Eb with a ninth root, ie Eb/F. The crux for me is that the root note (F) stays constant in the first eight bars (including intro) and it seems more sensible to define the chord in terms of F rather than Eb. Also, as a straight Eb chord the 'wistful/yearning' quality that I alluded to is lost.
Gerry
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=3#3 |
Out playing the saxes
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Pete Atkin
MV Deity
Posts: 509
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #4: 28.02.11 at 19:40 » |
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I'm almost certain you're right, Gerry. I'll sort it out. Apologies for a bit of laggardliness, though. I've been in studio with a new Freddie Raphael play for BBC Radio3 about the Roman poet Catullus, and I'm currently compiling, mixing, and editing it against a tightish deadline, but I'm sure I'll find a moment. (Incidentally, I've been able to book the extraordinary Clive Bell (shakuhachi on Thief In The Night on the Midnight Voices CD) and his extraordinary collection of sometimes literally unnameable pipes and flutes to provide the music for it.)
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=4#4 |
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Gerry Smith
MV Fixture
Posts: 222
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #5: 28.02.11 at 20:17 » |
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Well, I'e been busking on alto sax and whistles in Brighton again, in the road tunnel under the station. Lovely acoustics. A profitable if somewhat cold experience.
Did same on Friday last and got dragged in off the street to a studio to play on some guy's album. I thought I had turned into Mr Benn - got dressed up in my best 'urban sax player' gear and found myself in an adventure!
A proper job would be nice, though.
Gerry
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=5#5 |
Out playing the saxes
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Ian Chippett
MV Moderator
In the clear at over fifty-five
Posts: 332
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #6: 17.03.11 at 21:35 » |
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For myself, I'd like to have the music of "Commercial Traveller" and "A Man Who's Been Around" if possible. Every time I think I've worked out the chords, something happens to send me back to Square One.
Ian C
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=6#6 |
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Pete Atkin
MV Deity
Posts: 509
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #7: 19.03.11 at 17:48 » |
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Shaw nuff, Ian. I'll get onto them. (And I haven't forgotten I need to have another look at the chords to Lady Of A Day.)
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=7#7 |
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Pete Atkin
MV Deity
Posts: 509
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #8: 19.03.11 at 17:54 » |
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Oh yes, and I mentioned somewhere back there a new Frederic Raphael play about the Roman poet Catullus which I've been directing for BBC Radio3 and for which I'd booked Clive Bell to provide the music (he of the shakuhachi on Thief In The Night on the Midnight Voices CD). The play is to be transmitted on Sunday April 10 2011, but - and I'm probably breaching some contractual requirement or other by doing this - if you're interested in having a listen you can download an MP3 of it from http://www.sendspace.com/file/t7f3ih.
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=8#8 |
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S J Birkill
MV Administrator
just a sensible reserve
Posts: 867
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Three more, and an update
« Reply #9: 29.03.11 at 00:13 » |
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Pete has delivered on the requests in this thread, with three new lead sheets and a revised one:
A Man Who's Been Around
The Commercial Traveller
My Dreams Are Troubled
For Lady Of A Day, Pete has changed the chord notations in the light of the discussion above, to include a tonic pedal note in the first four bars of the main tune, which he feels best conveys the harmonic structure around that contentious second measure.
All of these are indexed from their respective album entries in the Discography.
Steve
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=9#9 |
Stephen J Birkill
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Ian Chippett
MV Moderator
In the clear at over fifty-five
Posts: 332
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #10: 06.04.11 at 09:30 » |
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Thanks, Pete. One slight technical quibble: shouldn't the F# chord in "Commercial Traveller" really be Gb? I know it's the same thing really but Gb is more logical. I say this because I was once asked to play a riff where the opening notes were F Bb F# and Bb. The accompanying chords were Bbm and F#. It sounded strange until I realised the author meant Gb at which point his ideas became clearer.
I'm also amazed that Pete could come up with something as sophisticated as My Dreams Are Troubled at a time when everyone was wearing flowers in their hair.
Ian C
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=10#10 |
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Pete Atkin
MV Deity
Posts: 509
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #11: 06.04.11 at 14:02 » |
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You're absolutely right, Ian. And Gflat is what I entered, but Fsharp is what the program (Finale PrintMusic!) insisted on, no matter how I tried to change it.
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=11#11 |
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Oliver Ash
MV Friend
I love Midnight Voices!
Posts: 22
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #12: 14.05.11 at 07:59 » |
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Hello to the Regulars from an Irregular
I would love to see the sheet music to Hill of Little Shoes in due course if at all possible...thanks very much Pete for all the songs transcribed so far. They are giving our household much pleasure.
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=12#12 |
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Pete Atkin
MV Deity
Posts: 509
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #13: 16.05.11 at 09:54 » |
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Thanks for that, Oliver. That's really good to know. Yes, I've been thinking I should get that one uploaded. Expect it soon. Any interest in piano parts at all? I've been wondering if I should copy the songs in the 'handwritten' First Folio - or some of them at least - into 'print' format.
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=13#13 |
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Oliver Ash
MV Friend
I love Midnight Voices!
Posts: 22
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #14: 16.05.11 at 10:19 » |
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Yes Pete, given the unavailability of The First Folio I would definitely be interested in the piano score to as many of the songs as possible, as well as Hill of Little Shoes. Thanks in advance.
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=14#14 |
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hannibalmcnee
MV Feature
The Early Quitter
Posts: 37
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #15: 24.05.11 at 21:59 » |
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I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd love to see some more piano scores in the style of First Folio become available.
I'm not an accomplished pianist. I can play what's written on the page (or a vague approximation of such) but I'm lousy at playing by ear and have no undertanding of musical theory, so things like chord tabs and even melody lines are completely wasted on me. I want to play the piano parts from the actual records.
I nabbed my own copy of FF a few years back and it's perfect. But it only covers a small percentage of Pete's output. I personally would be overjoyed if even so much as one or two songs became available in a similar format.
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=15#15 |
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Pete Atkin
MV Deity
Posts: 509
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #16: 25.05.11 at 11:47 » |
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Hi Hannibal - I'd be delighted. But although I might fondly nurture the ambition of getting everything transcribed in this form, it's not exactly realistic, so an idea or two of what you'd like me to start with would be most welcome.
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=16#16 |
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hannibalmcnee
MV Feature
The Early Quitter
Posts: 37
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #17: 25.05.11 at 15:58 » |
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Ooh, how exciting... I'm suddenly overwhelmed by song titles.
Personally, the number one song I'd like to play would be Get It Out Of Your Head.
Following that, in order of preference:
Thirty Year Man,
An Empty Table,
History And Geography,
Early Days,
The Magic Wasn't There,
The Faded Mansion On The Hill,
Nothing Left To Say,
Just For Me (Amy's Blues)
The Trophies Of My Lovers Gone,
A King At Knightfall,
Between Us There Is Nothing,
Cold Bitches,
and so on and on and on and on... (I could keep this going quite a while, but I expect that's plenty).
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=17#17 |
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Pete Atkin
MV Deity
Posts: 509
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #18: 26.05.11 at 09:56 » |
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Oo-er! Yes, right, fine, thanks, good. That'll keep me quiet these long dark evenings. No, but seriously, though, thanks. That helps me focus. They will indeed, as they emerge, turn out mostly as an approximation of the way I them (a la First Folio) rather than as a cleaned-up 'proper' version - which I'm guessing is what you're after anyway. My lack of any equally 'proper' piano-playing technique will also mean, I hope, that they're not exactly difficult to play - I do use all kinds of cheats and short cuts to cover my inadequacies. Perhaps not only in playing the piano, but let's not go there, as they say.
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=18#18 |
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hannibalmcnee
MV Feature
The Early Quitter
Posts: 37
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Re: Seven new song sheets
« Reply #19: 26.05.11 at 21:26 » |
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I'm glad to hear my list of demands hasn't put you off. No, no cleaned up 'proper' versions, thank you. I always find it such a disappointment to discover the sheet music for a song I've always wanted to play and it turns out to be some bland, workmanlike arrangement that bears no resemblance to the record. I mean, if I buy 'Baby Just Cares For Me' I want it to be the way that Nina Simone played it, including the transcribed solo (Regardless of whether I can actually keep up or not).
I found First Folio great in that respect, and very accessible, meaning I only have myself to blame for so consistently cocking up 'The Hollow and the Fluted Night'.
I'm very much looking forward to finally taking a crack at some others.
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https://peteatkin.com/forum?board=Music&action=display&num=1298200420&start=19#19 |
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