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From: "andy and lynn" <email address>
Subject: MV1235 Re: MV1234; MV1232; MV1229; MV1228: ...as he rolled into the flame.
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 01:24:31 +0100

I think the notion of 'taking risks' is fairly relative here.  We are talking 
about variations, after almost thirty years, in rhythm, phrasing and feel in 
songs that were radical mainly in their use of traditional songwriting 
structures and techniques.  This hardly compares with bungee jumping.  
Personally, I'm all for Pete playing around with the songs.  THey are his 
after all.  Its the notion of the retrospective repair job that I dislike.  
For example, I don't think that many of the 'hard rock' songs work well on 
record.  This is largely due, I suspect, to the use of session men and to the 
fact that Pete is hardly Joe Cocker.  It would be possible to rerecord the 
songs using Aerosmith and it might be closer to the sound Pete originally 
envisaged.  It wouldn't, however, be the same and, by the most important 
criteria, it wouldn't be as good.
  
By the way, what are the words to the end of Rainwheels?

==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:42:35 +0800
From: John Fuery <email address>
Subject: MV1236: "P.Atkins"

Dear Voices,

A while ago, I promised to send copies of BOTBS/DTMA to Marshall Hughes who
presents the F*** show on the radio here in hk, as well as to the organisers
of the F*** festival which takes place here each November. Have now done both,
and have a reply from Marshall Hughes (attached), 
who while obviously not having read the copious SFM sleevenotes and e-mail
addresses provided, seems to think that PA is some relation of Chet Atkins.
Anyway, as you can see from his e-mail, he has promised to air some of PA's
stuff on return from his two month (two bloody months!) holiday. Am still
waiting to hear from the HK F*** festival people, but have provided them with
Steve's e-mail address in case they are interested in giving audiences here a
taste of the most under-rated talent in contemporary music.

Yours from recession smitten Asia


John Fuery



Dear John,

Thank you for your letter, cassette and information on Pete Atkins. 

I am just about to leave HK for two months and my next 8 editions of
"Folk Roots" are pre-recorded for my absence. However, on my return you
can be assured that I will play some of the material and give it a bit
of publicity.

Thankyou for you rinterest in the show.

Reagards,

Marshall Hughes

==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:04:01 +0100
From: S J Birkill <email address>
Subject: MV1237 Re MV (various)

In reverse chronological order ...

Re MV1235, Andy:

The words under the fade I hear as:
          Her Firestones go trailing spray
          They spin, they grip, they whip away
          Through trembling reflections of the lights of intersections
          And the brightly flourished crayon of the neon ...
see http://www.rwt.co.uk/e1.htm

Re MV1209, Ian:

"automatically flipped through the "A" rack just in case" - feels familiar ...

Re MV1207, Leslie:

Yes, I collect whatever I can archive-wise. I have my own fairly good
recordings of most (but not all) of the Peel sessions, and am always
looking to fill the gaps, and add any concert recordings or interviews (and
especially any old video. Somewhere, in some dusty attic -- do people still
have those? -- there could be an old reel-to-reel home video of the Averham
revue (BBC-2) or WAYDATS). I can handle pretty well any tape format, and
have the ability to extract passable audio from most of the crud, and
process it digitally. Mostly I archive to DAT or CD-R, and supply a CD-R
copy to the owner of the archive tape, along with his or her original,
usually by overnight parcel service for security. I far prefer to work from
original tapes rather than dubs, and treat all originals as priceless.

(Here I must apologise to MV Graham Stibbs, whose tape of Pete on "Digance
does it ... locally" I still have. Having dubbed Pete I intended to make a
copy also of the Fairport material, but must have got sidetracked. A
momentary lapse? I'll get it sent off to you today, Graham, and thanks for
being so patient).

The radio and interview archive should be, of course, free to all on a
samizdat basis -- it's just that I haven't (yet) figured out exactly how to
make everything available. If I listed all the old recordings here I fear
I'd be overwhelmed with requests for CD-Rs. But I might be wrong -- the
Monyash CD was a manageable run (still some left!) despite its specialness.
I'm concerned also that it doesn't look to outsiders like a bootleg
factory! (Note that CD-R is less expensive to duplicate, in both time --
after the initial mastering -- and material cost, than cassette, at least
for one-offs).

Re MV1205, Cary:

No, I've not had any figures for the SFM sales. I think the last Pete heard
was that it was "going well". The Monyash label script I hadn't announced
as being Pete's work, merely hoped it would be recognised, from MVs'
autographed albums, or the 'A First Folio' images on the website, perhaps.

Re: New new members:

Welcome to Lesley Hodges, F T M Willson, Clare, Chris Evans and Paul McLellan.

Re Web Sites: Cary advises us her Rock Follies scrapbook (Julie Covington
content) is now on line under the home page at
http://members.xoom.com/Follies/home.html

Best Wishes to all 

-- Steve

==============================================================================
From: Neil Norman <email address>
Subject: MV1238: New versions
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:21:03 +0100

As my contribution to the "New version/interpretations debate may I 
pass on the following.
There is current trend for "modern" artists to sample old riffs or 
rhythm tracks for their "new" recording. This is taken further where 
the artist records a version of the track, usually with a piece of rap 
inserted somewhere (that's rap with a capital "C"), maybe even keeping 
the original vocal. (Note the current hit version of "Kung Fu 
Fighting".)
Surely we have an opening here. Find a rapper to re-record a PA 
classic, preferably retaining some PA vocals, but at the very least 
sampling something from the original. A number one hit is obviously 
inevitable and the royalties will flow in, and the public at large 
will get to hear the Atkin name (even if they are only the pre-teen 
public!)
The only question remaining is what songs to sample or give the Rap 
treatment to?
I'm sure the Voices can provide that answer
Neil Norman

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==============================================================================
From: Dave Fisher <email address>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:51:21 GMT
Subject: MV1239: Cover Magazine

The July issue of Cover magazine has  a free  12 track CD of various 
jazz artists who record for or have been re-released through the 
Impulse label. 
These include Diana Krall (recently recommended by another MV) 
singing 'They can't take that away from me' from her latest album 
'Love Scenes'. 
Other well known acts such as Art Blakey; Horace Silver; Sonny 
Rollins and Count Basie (with a track from the album 'Count Basie and 
the Kansas City 7' finding the groove with' Secrets'). 
As a fairly recent and initially reluctant listener to jazz many of 
the tracks by others I had not heard of have contained some  
delightful discoveries.

The magazine has some excellent previously published articles. The 
lenghthy analysis of Frank Sinatras career by John Lahr originally 
from the New Yorker is worth a read even if you are not a fan.

It took me nearly the whole of a fairly long train journey to get 
through all the articles and at 2.50 good value.

I do not have any stake in it!! I just thought some might be 
interested.     

Dave Fisher

==============================================================================
From: Neil Norman <email address>
Subject: MV1240: To Steve for info
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:29:38 +0100

Steve,
You probably know this and did it intentionally, but the last two MVs 
I received had only this footer, rather than your comprehensive 
listing of "Smash Flops" etc.
Regards
Neil Norman
==============================================================================
                   The Pete Atkin e-mail Discussion Group
              Midnight Voices <midnight.voices>
==============================================================================
Instant reply from Steve: yes, thanks Neil, it was intentional. I sometimes 
wonder if our members get a little tired of all the clutter that surrounds the 
'meat' of our messages, so I try at times to cut it down. Also the "MV-mobile" 
I use away from base wraps the lines much earlier on its tiny screen (even 
more than the 70-character wrap your Microsoft prog has applied, above -- 
wrapping [no, not rapping] is a minefield in e-mail, especially with so many 
now using proportional font in Microsoft or Netscape products), so I use a 
shorter footer when I'm away from base. I've not asked for comments, as I'm 
sure everyone has preferences of their (aargh!) own.

Anyhow, here comes the full thingie to illuminate your message, along with the 
header rule I don't always remember to include -- Steve

==============================================================================
| Midnight Voices -- The Pete Atkin e-mail Discussion Group     |78 char wrap|
| A closed group for free discourse on all topics related to    |Set window  |
| Pete Atkin, his chums and the songs of Pete and Clive James.  |width here ->
| Moderator Steve Birkill, admin requests pse to <email addr>   |and use font|
| Please address all posts to < e m a i l   a d d r e s s >     |Courier New |
| Related Web site "Smash Flops" http://www.rwt.co.uk/pa.htm    |to see msgs |
| MV message Web archive at http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvindex.htm    |as intended.|
==============================================================================

==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 09:59:53 -0700
From: Paul McLellan <email address>
Subject: MV1241

I first encountered Pete's music in my first year at Cambridge. I see
from the gig list that this would have been the evening of October 31st
1972 when he opened for Lou Reed (an unusual pairing, one has to admit).
This was just after a King at Nightfall had come out, I think. I bought it
but the earlier recordings were in the unavailable period.

I saw Pete several times during my years at Cambridge. Once, at Clare
folk club a friend of mine who was doing the sound asked Pete if he
could record the show off the sound board. I used to have a cassette of
this but it has got lost in my many moves, unfortunately.

-- paul

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Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:53:51 +0100
From: Graham Stibbs <email address>
Subject: MV1242 Re: MV1237 

>(Here I must apologise to MV Graham Stibbs, whose tape of Pete on "Digance
>does it ... locally" I still have. Having dubbed Pete I intended to make a
>copy also of the Fairport material, but must have got sidetracked. A 
>momentary lapse? I'll get it sent off to you today, Graham, and thanks for 
>being so patient).

No problem and no hurry Steve. I'm up to eyeball level with work then it's 
house hunting, preferably for something with a large attic... 

Graham Stibbs 

Quickie from Steve: You'll have it tomorrow, Graham. Thanks again! -- S

==============================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:38:51 +0100
From: Christine Guilfoyle <email address>
Subject: MV1243 Re: MV1233; MV1232; MV1229; MV1228: ...as he rolled into the flame.

>Isn't the point of this discussion forum to discuss? And surely dislike of
>one note, or line or even track doesn't condemn the whole lot. One persons
>'flaw' is anothers stroke of brilliance.With listening some of those bits
>that grated to start with become part of the tapestry that the songs weave
>for us.Can't we talk about that?

Sorry - I was only joking. Though, to be (semi) serious, I do have a bit
of a concern about us picking apart the minor flaws in 25 year old
recordings. It's a bit like those infamous bits in Beatles or Dylan
records where they get the words wrong or come in at the wrong point or
whatever. The trouble is, as soon as someone's pointed it out to you,
that's all you can hear. I don't want that to happen to any of my long-
treasured PA albums. 

In any case, I think that's rather a different issue from how Pete (or,
for that matter, any of us as listeners/performers) might choose to
reinterpret the songs, which is clearly a legitimate matter for
discussion. Pete's performances of 'Biro', 'Hypertension Kid' et al at
Monyash were powerful examples of revisiting the songs to bring out
something new (and personally I've always found Pete's solo performances
of the songs to be a revelation - sometimes the album arrangements
almost obscure the strength of his melodies). Although, I must say that,
for me, one of the interesting things about the songs is how difficult
it generally is to imagine them being done differently from the original
versions - and, of course, we do have the great Joe Stead as an awful
warning of the dangers of 'reinterpretation'...
-- Mike Walters

==============================================================================
From: Cary <email address>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:33:28 +0000
Subject: MV1244 Re: MV1240: To Steve for info

Mike wrote,

>The trouble is, as soon as someone's pointed it
>out to you, that's all you can hear. 

Point taken. I used to have a big problem with records that jumped - 
I could never sing the songs ( to myself I might add) without singing 
the jump.

Re. Footers (oh no - did I mention the world cup?)

My mail program always includes the format instructions aswell on the 
footer so it reads something like,

" The Pete Atkin e-mail Discussion Group     |78 char wrap|| A closed 
group for free discourse on all topics related to    |Set window  | | 
Pete Atkin, his chums and the songs of Pete and Clive James.  |width 
here -> | Moderator Steve Birkill, admin requests pse to 
<email address>  |and use font| | Please address all posts to 
<email address>    |Courier New | | Related Web site 
"Smash Flops" http://www.rwt.co.uk/pa.htm    |to see msgs | | MV 
message Web archive at http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvindex.htm    |as 
intended.|"

I've been trying to work out what the topics related to "Set window" 
are - Ballad of an Upstairs one maybe? And when are you going to 
disclose Clive's width? Ah well, it is the same programme that was 
sending people squashed cats.You may well ask why I stick to that 
programme .... no, don't please, it'll only confuse me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~        
ROCK FOLLIES - The Classic 1970's TV Drama starring 
Julie Covington, Charlotte Cornwell and Rula Lenska. 
Online at:-  http://members.xoom.com/Follies
Pictures,sounds and much more (unofficial site)
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Regards - Cary (like Mary with a 'C' for cat)

==========================================
Here's another of Steve's instant replies:

Sorry you couldn't see the footer as intended, Cary. Wrap and window width are 
things you have control of in most mail programs, though I won't (you'll be 
pleased to hear) try to go into details here. Sufficient to say that with the 
correct settings, and a fixed width (traditional e-mail) font, you would have 
the MV details at the left and centre of the footer reading:
=============================================================== 
| Midnight Voices -- The Pete Atkin e-mail Discussion Group   |
| A closed group for free discourse on all topics related to  |
| Pete Atkin, his chums and the songs of Pete and Clive James.|
| Moderator Steve Birkill, admin requests pse to <email addr> |
| Please address all posts to midnight.voices<email address>  |
| Related Web site "Smash Flops" http://www.rwt.co.uk/pa.htm  |
| MV message Web archive at http://www.rwt.co.uk/mvindex.htm  |
===============================================================
and to the right of it a vertical panel with the (I hope) not too obscure 
message:
                                                 ==============
                                                 |78 char wrap|
                                                 |Set window  |
                                                 |width here ->
                                                 |and use font|
                                                 |Courier New |
                                                 |to see msgs |
                                                 |as intended.|
                                                 ==============
which should look like a box with text in it, if your display is set not to 
"unwrap" the text. The "|" characters at the end of each line should be in 
vertical alignment, which they probably aren't be in the world in which your 
cat looks healthy, because of the non-constant character width of your font. 
One or two of our members have graphic sigs built out of ascii characters, 
which must look equally confusing in a proportional font. But not at all 
important to the content of our messages. Hope this explains the mystery, in 
part at least -- Steve

==============================================================================
From: "andy and lynn" <email address>
Subject: MV1245 Re: MV1237 Re MV (various)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 00:49:03 +0100

Steve, 
  
Thanks for the words to Rainwheels.  Problem is, I've always been fascinated 
by what comes <i>after</i> the fade.  It reminds me of the guitar solo at the 
end of (I don't want to go to) Chelsea...(question, are this and 'chelsea 
morning' the only songs not to mention Everton?)... wich also leaves a great 
deal to the imagination.  Anyway, did someone really say 'contemporary'?
  
Andy

==============================================================================
From: Dave Fisher <email address>
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:32:19 GMT
Subject: MV1246: Censorship

Can anyone help out there?

A friend of mine is researching into standards currently acceptable 
in public broadcasting and how they have changed over the years.

I was talking to her about a BBC radio programme called (I think) 
'Listen to the Banned' broadcast some time ago. The presenter played 
some records that had been banned up until quite recently. 
Two that spring to mind were 'The Vatican Rag' by the wonderful Tom 
Lehrer and another by an Andrews Sisters soundalike supposedly about 
a broken electric toaster entitled 'My pop-up won't pop-up anymore'. 
I will draw a veil over this.

I also thought I heard a section on product placement and its  
unacceptability to the BBC. This is where the memory I believe is 
playing its usual tricks. It was here (I have convinced myself) that 
I heard that two of PA's tracks had been banned. 
One was 'Have you got a Biro I can borrow' a fairly straightforward 
case as it used a brand name. The other was more obscure and strange  
'Wristwatch for a drummer' the watch in question as you know being  
an amalgam of the names of many fine timepieces.

Am I totally mistaken?
If not would anyone like to clarify or amend my somewhat vague 
recollections. 
Anyone have a tape of the programme?

Many thanks
Dave Fisher

==============================================================================
From: Dave Jones <email address>
Subject: MV1247 RE: MV1246: Censorship
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:52:15 -0400

>One was 'Have you got a Biro I can borrow' a fairly straightforward 
>case as it used a brand name. The other was more obscure and strange  
>'Wristwatch for a drummer' the watch in question as you know being  
>an amalgam of the names of many fine timepieces.

Pete himself has already related how he was warned that 'Biro' was
a brand name, but that it was OK as long as the capital 'B' was retained,
so he is always careful to sing 'Biro' instead of 'biro'.

I myself have propagated the story that 'Wristwatch' was banned, claiming
as my source Pete's concert patter back in the days of yore.  In fact I
seem to remember Pete saying that a lot of their stuff was banned, not
for smut but for brand names.  At the time Desiree Carthorse and her
National Voyeurs and Lechers Association were all over the BBC for
smutty programming, but the most visible result of their efforts was the
ridiculous pretend-its-not-there treatment of Chuck Berry's No. 1 hit,
"My Ding-a-Ling".  I think the subtext of Pete's remarks was that it
would be nice to get banned for smut because at least your sales would
increase.

Dave J.
In a plain brown wrapper in Rochester NY.

==============================================================================
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 18:13:52 +0100
From: Graham Stibbs <email address>
Subject: MV1248 Re: MV1246: Censorship

Dave Fisher wrote:

> I heard that two of PA's tracks had been banned.
> One was 'Have you got a Biro I can borrow' a fairly straightforward
> case as it used a brand name. The other was more obscure and strange
> 'Wristwatch for a drummer' the watch in question as you know being
> an amalgam of the names of many fine timepieces.
>
> Am I totally mistaken?
> If not would anyone like to clarify or amend my somewhat vague
> recollections.
> Anyone have a tape of the programme?

Memory can play tricks, but I do  clearly recall listening to (possibly even 
recording , but the tape is nowhere to be found) this programme and I'm sure 
I would've remembered any PA/CJ references.
Mind you, now we know why Pete's single 'Carnation's on the Roof' got no 
airplay on the Beeb - all that advertising condensed milk...

Graham Stibbs

==============================================================================
From: Dave Jones <email address>
Subject: MV1249 RE: MV1216; MV1215: Covers and middle eights
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:20:39 -0400

>From: Dave Fisher <email address>
>>
>> And on covers: these days the person I'd perhaps most like to hear do some
>> of our stuff is Diana Krall.   Check out her All For You CD if you get a
>> chance.  If her versions of I'm Through With Love or If I Had You don't have
>> at least the heterosexual males among you quivering with, well, emotion,
>> then I think it's time for me to re-examine my sensibilities.
>> 
>
>Have to agree. 
>The cover picture of her seated at the piano does 
>nothing to dispel these thoughts either.
>
>Must go and have a lie down.
>
>Dave Fisher

Hmm, I bought the latest, "Love Scenes" and thought it a bit run-of-the-mill.  
Then I managed to find "All for You" and found it to be a much better effort. 
Funnily enough, "Love Scenes" now sounds better as well.

As is my wont, I plugged her name into the Web and came up with plenty of 
stuff. Her tour schedule is available via the MCA web site.  Online reviews 
ranged from raves to "forget her, listen to Shirley Horn".  I can understand 
how some would think that way, but it's early days yet. She could develop into 
quite an artist, if the hype doesn't get to her first.

Here are a couple of tour dates that MV's might be interested in:
(date format US: month/day/year)

       7/11/98   Hague, Holland 
       7/13/98   Nice, France
       7/16/98   Montauban, France
       7/17/98   Wigan (!!!!), England    Mill at t'Pier
       7/31/98   Edinburgh, Scotland      Queens Hall
       8/1 - 8/2/98 Dublin, Ireland       Temple Bar
       8/4/98     Crest, France 
       11/12/98  London, England          Barbican (tentative)

Dave Jones
Tinkling away in Rochester NY.

==============================================================================
From: Dave Fisher <email address>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:25:54 GMT
Subject: MV1250 Re: MV1247; MV1246: Censorship

Thanks Graham & Dave

I must have been totally confused (not an infrequent occurrence these days). 
Too many pints of Carnation probably. 
I must read through the MV archive sometime. 

Dave Fisher

==============================================================================
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 04:51:38 -0400
From: Chris Harris <email address>
Subject: MV1251 Re: MV1246: Censorship

Re "Listen to the banned".
I remember the program -presented by someone like Barry Crier and that it
included  "God save the Queen , she ain't no human being -pronounced bean" 
by the Stanglers (maybe). But I also don't recall any reference to PA which
I think I would have noted. ( I remember where I was when I heard it   - in
my mums front room if you must know). 
I recall that they had to get permission to play some of the songs as they
were still officially banned by the Beeb - what year was this I wonder - 
over 12 years ago at least maybe more like 20 - although I guess that it
could have been repeated since. 
Now -  Pete re-interpreting  "My Pop Up won't pop up any more" sounds like 
the sort of artistic challenge he would thrive on - could be the big break
he's been waiting for .

Chris 

==============================================================================
From: Mark Roberts <email address>
Subject: MV1252 RE: MV1251; MV1246: Censorship
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:37:23 +0100

>Re "Listen to the banned".
>I remember the program -presented by someone like Barry Crier and that it
>included  "God save the Queen , she ain't no human being -pronounced bean" 
>by the Stanglers (maybe). 

hmmm, Sex Pistols I think, Anarchy In The UK

Cheers,

Mark

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mondex International Limited
47-53 Cannon Street, London  EC4M 5SQ
England
Registered No: 3122085, England

Telephone No: <phone number>
Web Site: http://www.mondex.com

==============================================================================
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:18:06 -0400
From: David Gritten <email address>
Subject: MV1253: moved to london

     Hi,

     Just to let you know David Gritten has finally moved back to the
     big city.

     Same e-mail address, different snail mail:

     <postal address>

     New phone number: <phone number>
     New fax number    <fax number>

     One way or another, we'll be in touch!

     Best,

     David

==============================================================================
From: Dave Fisher <email address>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:36:02 GMT
Subject: MV1254 Re: MV1251; MV1246: Censorship

Thanks Chris.
My confusion knows no bounds.
My only excuse is that it was a long time ago and for my inclination  
to place two or more disparate snippets of information into 
one.Storage and recall is obviously a problem in what's left of my 
brain. 

Dave

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