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        Pete Atkin >> Words >> True and false rhymes 
        
(Message started by: Richard Bleksley on Today at 23:42)

Title: True and false rhymes
Post by Richard Bleksley on Today at 23:42

This subject having been raised again (in connection with why the third verse is being ommitted on the current tour from The last Hill That Shows You All the Valley), can anybody explain to me exactly what is a true rhyme and what is a false one? I can see why a really conscientious rhymer might be dissatisfied with "dreamer / Iwo Jima / Kolyma," but I cannot for the life of me see why "believe" is a false rhyme with "leave" and "retrieve" is a true one - and I noticed it was back to "believe" at Walthamstow.

Any answers?

Title: Re: True and false rhymes
Post by Gerry Smith on 25.10.05 at 00:03

Well, Richard, I can only imagine that your former example (believe/leave) is a homophone and therefore a false rhyme whereas believe/retrieve is not.

Gerry

Title: Re: True and false rhymes
Post by Ian Chippett on 26.10.05 at 12:26

Richard wrote:

<<I can see why a really conscientious rhymer might be dissatisfied with "dreamer / Iwo Jima / Kolyma," but I cannot for the life of me see why "believe" is a false rhyme with "leave" and "retrieve" is a true one - and I noticed it was back to "believe" at Walthamstow. >>

I think it's OK in a comic song (like BoTBS though it's not quite a comic song) when you have "arrange a/ stranger" but the "dreamer/Kolyma" rhyme now it's been pointed out is a bit less acceptable though it hadn't shocked me before.

Ian C

Title: Re: True and false rhymes
Post by Jan on 26.10.05 at 21:59

In another thread

on 10/24/05 at 13:29:41, S J Birkill wrote :

A new poem from Clive, When we were kids, employed a consonant rather than vowel rhyme scheme. Clive explained afterwards that it was a trick he'd borrowed from Welsh bardic tradition, where all kinds of strict consonance patterns were explored. I forget the Welsh name he gave for this one -- was it a form of cynghanedd?

Here (http://www.peteatkin.com/canterbury.htm) is a page of photos and reviews.

Steve

After the Cardiff show in 2002 Clive mentioned that he had been experimenting with a Welsh poetic device in The Faded Mansion on the Hill. If you're looking at the rhyming of consonants then believe and leave would seem to me to rhyme pretty well.
Jan

Title: Re: True and false rhymes
Post by Kevin Cryan on 27.10.05 at 11:45

There is a very good, and easily readable, entry on the various forms of Cynghanedd in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynghanedd).

I know that recently there's been some doubt cast on the quality of Wikipedia entries , but I think that we probably can take it on trust that an entry on a little known Welsh verse form has probably been written by someone who knows his or her stuff.

Kevin Cryan