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Secret Drinker
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Paul Gunningham, MoM

   

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Here We Stay x 2 - thoughts?
« : 11.09.06 at 11:23 »
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I just wondered whether Pete had got enough feedback on Saturday as to which version of Here We Stay people preferred? Or whether everyone liked both equally?
 
I told Pete that based on the single hearing of the second ('non-tour') version, and my second hearing of the 'tour' version, I preferred the latter. Maybe I need to hear the other one more than once, though. It seems unfair to make a choice based on a single hearing - or is it? Perhaps first impressions are what count - they certainly are if you want to sell a pop song.
 
The 'tour' version was immediately accessible (i.e. catchy), and I thought that after my first hearing of it at Farnham. Whereas the other version didn't strike me the same way - but I'm aware that the best tunes can take a while to grow on you.
 
Pete's other thought was that maybe he could write different words for the 'non-tour' tune - what do others think?
 
Cheers
 
Paul
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Sylfest
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Re: Here We Stay x 2 - thoughts?
« Reply #1: 11.09.06 at 12:44 »
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Agreed.
 
I like anthems, and the 'march' version of 'Here we Stay' works just fine for me.
 
The other song is more reflective, with a more complex mood. Instead of using the singalong tune and marching rhythm to drive home the song's message of determination, as far as I can remember Pete first creates an uncertain mood of soliloquy, and then gives the hook line a twist by changing to a major key (?). It's a neat trick which think he's done before: it seems to suggest a change of direction, a widening scope: it puts more surprise and drama into the song.
 
I think, though (and I wish we could read this one on the website!), Clive's lyric is on a fairly even tone, more suited to the simpler tune. Why not write a new lyric for the other tune, then? After Laughing Boy, Prayers Against the Hitman and Here we Stay, there's still room for another C&P manifesto song!
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andrew_long
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Re: Here We Stay x 2 - thoughts?
« Reply #2: 11.09.06 at 12:46 »
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Me too.I preferred,as I always do,the one I'd heard before.
 
So this comment isn't really helpful except to say ' yes,release both '  
 
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S J Birkill
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just a sensible reserve

   

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Lyric
« Reply #3: 11.09.06 at 14:10 »
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on 11.09.06 at 12:44, Sylfest wrote:
I think, though (and I wish we could read this one on the website!)...

Here We Stay
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Seán Kelly
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Re: Here We Stay x 2 - thoughts?
« Reply #4: 11.09.06 at 16:54 »
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Number Two, Number Two, Number Two !  The first 5 people I asked on the night all said number two without hesitation (or prompting !) - although the next three, without hearing each other, all said number one - AND their surnames were all Birkill ; interesting!  
By the time I stopped asking it was about 5 votes each (so not that helpful then!) - but for me it has to be number two - much more of a Pete tune - more mysterious - made you think about he words rather than having them drilled home - it left phrases hanging in the air somehow - echoing in your mind.  Made the hair on the back of my neck stand up - honest.  The real meeting of the work of James & Atkin and the creation of something greater - well okay you know, I vote for number two  Smiley
and by the way I believe I have heard it before - along with Janice I think it was at Walthamstow whenever that was last (I suppose your excel setlist won't say "version 1" Janice, if version two had not been written?  Smiley )  
and yes of course a song like this should have time to be heard again - I have never demanded instant appeal from any Pete Atkin song before - I expected (and got) long-lasting appeal! (sounds like an advert !)
Vote Number two!
Seán
(that was a partly biased broadcast from the Vote-Version-Number-Two party!)
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S J Birkill
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Re: Here We Stay x 2 - thoughts?
« Reply #5: 11.09.06 at 17:34 »
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Yeah, I remember saying No.1. But I wasn't too coherent at the reception -- I now think that version 2 suited better the lyric -- more stark, more compelling. The repeated line in v.1 doesn't celebrate, it only serves to fill a gap. But... I like to hear Pete rock, so if he reverted to v.2 for the next CD I'd be disappointed to lose the alternative toon and arrangement of v.1 altogether -- hope it can be bent to fit another lyric!
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Keith M
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Re: Here We Stay x 2 - thoughts?
« Reply #6: 12.09.06 at 19:05 »
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I hadn't thought about it before but it is obvious and dawned on me after listening to the two versions of 'Here we stay' that the setting can change the meaning of the words.  The refrain is defiant in version one and resigned in version two.  I think I prefer version two (the [/i]Ur[i]version as Pete called it - shades of Urfaust!) but I wouldn't want to lose version one, so I hope Pete does as he suggested and records them both.  Then we can compare and contrast at our leisure.
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Paul Gunningham, MoM

   

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Re: Here We Stay x 2 - thoughts?
« Reply #7: 13.09.06 at 08:58 »
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on 12.09.06 at 19:05, Keith M wrote:
...I hope Pete does as he suggested and records them both.  Then we can compare and contrast at our leisure.  

 
I agree - both versions work well, and it would be another first for Pete - the same song with two entirely different tunes*. I don't see any value in us having a war about which is 'better' - keep them both, Pete, and ring the changes!
 
*Thinking about it, there is a precedent for this in the PA/CJ canon - can anyone recall what it is?
 
Cheers
 
Paul  Cool
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Mike Walters
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Re: Here We Stay x 2 - thoughts?
« Reply #8: 13.09.06 at 13:20 »
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I recall that Clive's original public performance of 'Hill of Little Shoes' in Buxton had a very different tune from the one we're now familiar with, but I don't think that's what you had in mind...
 
I'd second (third?) the suggestion that Pete should retain both versions of 'Here We Stay' - I'd be very sorry to lose the anthemic version, which I think does bring a little something new to the Atkin/James canon (I envisage us all swaying with our lighters when Pete plays the stadia in due course), but there was a lot I liked about the alternative version.  And it's certainly true that the different melodies do change the impact of the lyrics -  indicating once again that the 'meaning' of the songs doesn't inhere in Clive's lyrics alone.  I'm very attracted by the notion of bookending the (surely impending) next CD with the two versions...though I suppose then we have to consider which version comes first...
 
Finally, just to add my thanks to Steve, Carole and Pete for making Saturday possible...a terrific venue and a fascinating set.  I have to admit that I never thought I'd hear 'Little Sammy Speedball' live...
 
Regards
 
Mike
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Secret Drinker
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Paul Gunningham, MoM

   

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Re: Here We Stay x 2 - thoughts?
« Reply #9: 13.09.06 at 14:21 »
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on 13.09.06 at 13:20, Mike Walters wrote:
I recall that Clive's original public performance of 'Hill of Little Shoes' in Buxton had a very different tune from the one we're now familiar with, but I don't think that's what you had in mind...

 
It was! (Better say so now in case anyone wastes any more time thinking about it!)
 
(Not quite the same, I admit, because CJ wrote the first tune himself.)
 
Cheers
 
Paul
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S J Birkill
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Re: Here We Stay x 2 - thoughts?
« Reply #10: 13.09.06 at 20:49 »
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on 13.09.06 at 14:21, Secret Drinker wrote:
It was! (Better say so now in case anyone wastes any more time thinking about it!)
And there was I thinking The Ties That Bind You...
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Pete Atkin
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Re: Here We Stay x 2 - thoughts?
« Reply #11: 14.09.06 at 18:59 »
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I really wasn't trying to force a decision between the two, but the result so far at least confirms that I was right not simply to abandon my first thought, just as it confirms that Clive was right to request a rethink.   Of course, each version is capable of being performed in a different rhythmical style from the one I gave it at the Lantern;  I could do the 'anthem' version more reflectively, and the ur-version more rockily....   But perhaps that would mean recording it four times instead of twice....
 
But I'm glad it's aroused so much interest.  Besides, I think it ranks right up there with Clive's very best.
 
Pete
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BogusTrumper
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Re: Here We Stay x 2 - thoughts?
« Reply #12: 15.09.06 at 12:59 »
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Ok, so some of us, who have never heard either version, have read the lyrics and love them, and are going quietly insane trying to imagine what the two different versions are like   Grin
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